History in our Schools

Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by JonC δοῦλος, Aug 9, 2013.

  1. JonC

    JonC
    Expand Collapse
    Lifelong Disciple
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2001
    Messages:
    6,920
    Likes Received:
    366
    I spoke to a young man who just finished his first year in college. Since I’m military he chose to bring up our wars.


    He didn’t have much to say, only that WWI and WWII were about Hitler trying to take over the world and Vietnam was the final phase of WWII. The only thing he really recalled from high school was that we shouldn’t have been in Vietnam.


    It would be funny, if it wasn’t sad. Is history no longer taught, or does our youth simply find no value in studying history? It seems that without even a basic understanding they would have no framework with which to understand their environment.


    I’m no history buff, but even I know that Mussolini started the Vietnam war (aka, the northern aggression). :)
     
  2. Baptist Believer

    Baptist Believer
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 20, 2002
    Messages:
    6,650
    Likes Received:
    187
    Hate to say it, but that doesn't surprise me a bit. History is so de-emphasized in public schools that students today have no context to understand why the world is in the shape it is in.

    I was just thinking the other day how much our current societal and political problems were shaped by World War I (which began nearly 100 years ago) which led directly to Communism taking hold in the world (the Russian Revolution), World War II, nuclear arms, the Cold War, U.S. domination of the world with foreign policy objectives and tactics that have caused as many problems as they have solved, etc.

    The lack of understanding of history makes most of our voters ignorant of why things are the way they are and allow them to follow any political or social Pied Piper who plays a tune that sounds appealing. It will eventually lead to our national and social destruction if we don't reverse the trend.
     
  3. Salty

    Salty
    Expand Collapse
    20,000 Posts Club
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2003
    Messages:
    22,083
    Likes Received:
    218
    I'm curious to know what he learned about the War Between the States
     
    #3 Salty, Aug 9, 2013
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 9, 2013
  4. JonC

    JonC
    Expand Collapse
    Lifelong Disciple
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2001
    Messages:
    6,920
    Likes Received:
    366
    Oh, you mean the Revolutionary war. That's when South Carolina won its independence from Britain - shot heard round the world.
     
  5. preachinjesus

    preachinjesus
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member
    Supporter

    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2004
    Messages:
    7,406
    Likes Received:
    99
    With the advent of mandatory testing requirements for school systems that ties their money to how well students do on the assessments, education is dying a painful death in the United States.

    Students are no longer taught the variety of subjects and things that matter like so many of us were taught, but are schooled and drilled in the assessment test matters.

    We've lost what it means to be educated in the United States and are producing a generation of uneducated pupils with a plentitude of groundless degrees.
     
  6. quantumfaith

    quantumfaith
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2010
    Messages:
    6,890
    Likes Received:
    0


    JonC,

    While I cannot speak directly to the student you referenced nor his educational experience, what I can speak to is that certainly there are poor teachers in some classrooms, but an even bigger factor is a culture war at work which manifests itself in many ways......no sense of personal motivation being one of them. I won't go on a rant as to the level of discipline in schools which directly translates into our nations poor performance among other industrialized nations. I can tell you as a matter of fact that 60-80% percent of students coming to college require at least one course in remedial classes, english, reading and even more acutely in mathematics. I believe we as a nation are victims of our won success. We have become rich and lazy as a nation, which is reflected in the level of education. Of course our media and obsession with entertainment and ease of access to it certainly have much to contribute to the problem, as does the disintegration of our family structure.
     
  7. Mexdeaf

    Mexdeaf
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 14, 2005
    Messages:
    7,051
    Likes Received:
    0
  8. Revmitchell

    Revmitchell
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2006
    Messages:
    38,287
    Likes Received:
    780
    And yet they still find time for things like sex education and homosexual rights.
     
  9. blackbird

    blackbird
    Expand Collapse
    Administrator
    Administrator

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2002
    Messages:
    11,898
    Likes Received:
    2
    You mean---the War of Northern Aggression --- don't you???

    :laugh::laugh::wavey:
     
  10. padredurand

    padredurand
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Oct 25, 2004
    Messages:
    4,384
    Likes Received:
    20
    Depends on which way you were facing at the time. :wavey:

    Tell you how we fixed this history problem in our house. We home schooled. When we did our unit on the American Revolution we traveled all over New York, New England and Canada. We went to battlefields, stopped at libraries and read a hundred of those roadside historical markers.

    We put on thousands of miles following the paths of our Northern Aggression. Put boots on the ground and let these young ones see, smell, taste, hear and touch our history.
     
  11. Mexdeaf

    Mexdeaf
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 14, 2005
    Messages:
    7,051
    Likes Received:
    0
    What a great way to teach.
     
  12. agedman

    agedman
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 4, 2011
    Messages:
    4,255
    Likes Received:
    185


    Sure, blame the teachers.

    Here is the fact.

    First, strong secure home coupled with a strong educational environment = students that have minimal educational problems and extremely high success rate.

    Second, strong secure home coupled with a weak educational environment = students that have some catching up to do at private colleges, no educational problems at the typical public college and extremely high success rate.

    Third, mediocre to weak home coupled with a strong educational environment = students who IF and ONLY IF they take personal responsibility for their own growth both mentally and socially to achieve and those that do take that responsibility thrive. Most don't and pull others down, too.

    Fourth, mediocre to weak home coupled with a weak educational environment = students who have absolutely NO success rate. Zero, zip, nada, none.

    Success (especially of the teen to early twenties) of the student rests squarely upon the HOME - not the school.

    It was amazing to see that ALL children would thrive until grade 4 - no matter the strength or weakness of the home. However after then it was ALL dependent upon the home.

    And for those who think the holy huddle of the "home school" is the way to "protect the children" need to consider, in the last 30 or more years, the home schooled children have an actual success rate of less than the second choice above. It is THE HOME that matters NOT the school.

    I have taught in public, private, and been a resource guide to the home schooled.

    There is no doubt that God wants parents to train their children, to be PHYSICALLY involved with the education of their children, and to be the guardians over the influences as the child grows and tests the waters of the world.

    But if one is going to blame the education for all societal evils, then Paul should have been the best example of what education can achieve - possibly the best educated and most highly respected of the religious righteous of his day - consented to the murder of Stephen.

    Another thought while I'm at it.

    The smarter the child the more they thrive, have a sense of accomplishment and personal worth, and are actually more greatly nurtured in a highly structured environment. I am certainly NOT suggesting abusive discipline - that is not structure. I am stating by structure, there is a system of responsibilities and punishment / rewards that apply to everyone, equally. A parent who doesn't say please and thank you is no less responsible nor less infraction of the home rules than the child.

    When home schooling is compared it is ONLY superior in success to the first group above when the child is nurtured both mentally and emotionally in that highly structured environment.


    One final point. This is my personal experience and NOT to be taken as the testimony of others who have experience in higher education.

    I have seen better adjusted, more independent thinking, and stronger academic students from those of the first and second grouping who were public schooled versus private or home schooled.

    Certainly, I am not "putting down" home schooled, however I think that all parents need to see that their child thrives no matter the school environment.

    IT IS THE HOME - that is were the responsibility must be placed.
     
  13. Inspector Javert

    Inspector Javert
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Jun 10, 2013
    Messages:
    1,256
    Likes Received:
    0
    HEY!!!!! I actually had to take a remedial course in Math.....

    It just doesn't make sense to some people....
    Actually, I think it's because there are few good Math teachers.
    Teaching...is a largely "right-brained" skill, and Mathematics is "left-brained". But that's my own theory. :wavey:
    Sorry to go completely off-topic here :thumbs:
    And that is issue no.
    1.)
    2.)
    and 3.)
    right there....

    To kill the nation you kill the church...
    To kill the Church you kill the family...
    To kill the family, you kill the FATHER.

    Satan ain't stupid....foolish perhaps....but, not stupid.
     
    #13 Inspector Javert, Aug 10, 2013
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 10, 2013
  14. Inspector Javert

    Inspector Javert
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Jun 10, 2013
    Messages:
    1,256
    Likes Received:
    0
    He IS a teacher....and there are a lot of crappy ones. He's allowed to criticize teachers.
     
  15. InTheLight

    InTheLight
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 17, 2010
    Messages:
    16,186
    Likes Received:
    611
    Do you have data to support your assertions? Or is it anecdotal evidence?
     
  16. Revmitchell

    Revmitchell
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2006
    Messages:
    38,287
    Likes Received:
    780
    You do not believe home is where there is responsibility? You need some sort of data for that?

    Me thinks your altruism is getting the best of you.
     
  17. InTheLight

    InTheLight
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 17, 2010
    Messages:
    16,186
    Likes Received:
    611
    Of course I believe home life and parental involvement plays a huge role in a student's success.

    There is some surprising data out there that contradicts some long held maxims about students, home environment, and scholastic success.

    Agedman presented several scenarios of student success and prefaced the whole thing with, "Here is the fact". So, yes some data would be required.

    The fact is that hereditary factors are the most reliable predictor of student success.
     
    #17 InTheLight, Aug 10, 2013
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 10, 2013
  18. Revmitchell

    Revmitchell
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2006
    Messages:
    38,287
    Likes Received:
    780
    Some facts are if our public schools are intentionally not teaching history then parents should take the time to teach it at home.

    Parents need to be involved in knowing what is being taught to our children and addressing false teachings in the public school system like evolution and sex education.

    I like most parents care little about hereditary factors. Personally I will be involved in my kids education and work to see that my kids are getting the best we can give them.
     
  19. JonC

    JonC
    Expand Collapse
    Lifelong Disciple
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2001
    Messages:
    6,920
    Likes Received:
    366
    Many just rely on the system. That’s a huge problem which, I believe, is not limited to public schools. Too often parents “take” their children to church and expect the church to develop their spiritual formation. Just as I cannot relinquish my responsibility to train and teach my son about God, I cannot abandon my responsibility to educate him.

    Unfortunately, when it gets to the point one needs to “home school” in addition to public school, there’s a problem. I don’t think that we’re there yet, but in many aspects that’s where we’re headed. I expect the teachers to know more about their subjects than I – and often they are simply not afforded the venue to teach beyond the curriculum that is demanded of them.
     
  20. Revmitchell

    Revmitchell
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2006
    Messages:
    38,287
    Likes Received:
    780
    I do not want them to.
     

Share This Page

Loading...