history of the doctrine of the rapture

Discussion in '2003 Archive' started by Ps104_33, Jan 11, 2003.

  1. Ps104_33

    Ps104_33
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 3, 2001
    Messages:
    4,005
    Likes Received:
    0
    Can anyone give me some history of the doctrine of the rapture? Like some commentary prior to 1900. Maybe some of the Reformers or Puritan literature where the rapture of the church is dicussed or is this a recent discovery?

    [ January 11, 2003, 08:16 PM: Message edited by: Ps104_33 ]
     
  2. Dr. Bob

    Dr. Bob
    Expand Collapse
    Administrator
    Administrator

    Joined:
    Jun 30, 2000
    Messages:
    29,402
    Likes Received:
    12
    Can't have a "history" of something that hasn't happened yet! :eek:

    (Know what you meant from the thread, but sure was chuckling over the title!) :rolleyes:
     
  3. Ps104_33

    Ps104_33
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 3, 2001
    Messages:
    4,005
    Likes Received:
    0
    Thanks Doc, I changed it to make more sense. [​IMG]
     
  4. LadyEagle

    LadyEagle
    Expand Collapse
    <b>Moderator</b> <img src =/israel.gif>
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2002
    Messages:
    22,028
    Likes Received:
    1
    Hi, Psalm:

    Here's the earliest source I could find on Google:

    I Thes. 4:[16] For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

    [17] Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.


    (Sorry, I couldn't resist, LOL! :D [​IMG] ;) :eek: [​IMG] [​IMG] )
     
  5. Ps104_33

    Ps104_33
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 3, 2001
    Messages:
    4,005
    Likes Received:
    0
    The bottom line is you couldnt find anything historically, right? I am serious about this, because I really want to know, historically, if this is a recent church development or if there is anything prior to 1900 about this doctrine.

    From Spurgeon, John Owen, Whitefield, Calvin, Knox, Luther, Turretin etc.

    Only serious replies please. [​IMG]

    [ January 11, 2003, 09:50 PM: Message edited by: Ps104_33 ]
     
  6. Bible-belted

    Bible-belted
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 8, 2002
    Messages:
    1,110
    Likes Received:
    0
    If you're referring to a rapture ofthe church, then She-Eagle is correct. There has been a doctrine of the rapture of the church from the earliest days.

    But let's put a caveat here. There are two distinct doctrines of the rapture. One is the historic one, the one that can be traced back to the Bible, and it is called Historic Premillenialsim. It is the doctrine of a post-trib rapture.

    The pretrib rapture doctrine has its roots much, much later. The early 1800s seems to be the time at which the "Darbyist", or the "Dispensational" scheme.
     
  7. Helen

    Helen
    Expand Collapse
    <img src =/Helen2.gif>

    Joined:
    Aug 29, 2001
    Messages:
    11,703
    Likes Received:
    1
  8. Bible-belted

    Bible-belted
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 8, 2002
    Messages:
    1,110
    Likes Received:
    0
    Thanks for the links Heeln. Good to see you back. Hope you are recovering well.

    BTW another link to consider:

    Last Trumpet
     
  9. BrianT

    BrianT
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 20, 2002
    Messages:
    3,516
    Likes Received:
    0
    Do you mean history of the pretrib rapture? There are no references before about 1830. Edward Irving's ideas were expanded and spread mostly by John Darby in the 1800's, and given an extra boost by the Scofield study Bible in the early 1900's.
     
  10. Ps104_33

    Ps104_33
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 3, 2001
    Messages:
    4,005
    Likes Received:
    0
    THanks for all the help. I kind of suspected that it was a fairly novel concept even though I 've believed it all my Christian life because thats what I've been taught, but it always bothered me that it didnt seem that it had any foundation historically. Sometimes people quote those verses from Thessalonians, and I can see how these verses could be interpreted this way, but why is it that the Fathers, or the Reformers didnt interpret those verses in that way? Why didnt they see it?

    Point me to some early writings of the fathers or the Reformers to the pre-trib rapture. So far it has been trace to Darby.

    Is there any thing before that? That is 1800 years after the founding of the church.

    Can we rant and rave against the Roman Catholics when they come up with doctrines 1800 years after the founding of the church if Bible Believers are going to do it to?
     
  11. Ed Edwards

    Ed Edwards
    Expand Collapse
    <img src=/Ed.gif>

    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2002
    Messages:
    15,715
    Likes Received:
    0
    Matthew 12:32 (nKJV):

    Anyone who speaks a word against the Son of Man, it will be forgiven him; but whoever speaks against the Holy Spirit, it will not be forgiven him, either in this age or in the age to come.

    Are you going to critique me if i
    give a name (not used prior to 1800)
    to this age? Are you going to critique
    me if i give a name to the next age
    (one not used prior to 1800)?
     
  12. Ed Edwards

    Ed Edwards
    Expand Collapse
    <img src=/Ed.gif>

    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2002
    Messages:
    15,715
    Likes Received:
    0
    Come to think of it,
    consider INDEPENDENT FUNDAMENTAL BAPTIST.
    The Baptist doctrine dates from the 1700s,
    the Fundamental doctrine dates from the 1920s,
    the Independent doctrine dates from the 1500s.

    Is it the name of the doctrine, and from
    whense it derives as important as the
    doctrine and the Bible from which it derives?

    I've been defending the pretribulation premillinnial
    futurist Doctrine for 18 years on the internet.
    Well, actually the present form of the internet
    didn't exist two years ago, or ten years ago.
    I've been on my computer interacting with others
    for 18 years, frequently defending the pretribulation
    rapture.

    The efforts to rewite the history of
    the pretribualtion doctrine on the
    internet didn't reach my attention until
    what seems like a couple of years ago.
    Anyway, I'm content to prove the pretribulation
    rapture from the Holy Bible. [​IMG]
     
  13. Helen

    Helen
    Expand Collapse
    <img src =/Helen2.gif>

    Joined:
    Aug 29, 2001
    Messages:
    11,703
    Likes Received:
    1
    Ps104_33, might I suggest you read the first couple of links that I posted, at least?
     
  14. Pastor Larry

    Pastor Larry
    Expand Collapse
    <b>Moderator</b>
    Moderator

    Joined:
    May 4, 2001
    Messages:
    21,763
    Likes Received:
    0
    An article in a recent issue of BibSac does give historic evidence for the pre trib rapture. The bottom line reckons with the history of doctrinal development. It happened in every doctrine. Eschatology was the last to be systematized. Don't let the charges of recency throw you.
     
  15. Ed Edwards

    Ed Edwards
    Expand Collapse
    <img src=/Ed.gif>

    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2002
    Messages:
    15,715
    Likes Received:
    0
    Amen, Sister Helen -- Preach it! [​IMG]
     
  16. Ed Edwards

    Ed Edwards
    Expand Collapse
    <img src=/Ed.gif>

    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2002
    Messages:
    15,715
    Likes Received:
    0
    Amen, Pastor Larry -- Preach it [​IMG]
     
  17. Ps104_33

    Ps104_33
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 3, 2001
    Messages:
    4,005
    Likes Received:
    0
    Yes, Helen I skimmed through most of what you posted and some of it is a stretch. It seems that we can credit the doctrine to Darby. I am just concerned that so many good men of God prior tp Darby seemed to miss it. I'll just let it go at that. Case closed as far as I am concerned.
     
  18. Helen

    Helen
    Expand Collapse
    <img src =/Helen2.gif>

    Joined:
    Aug 29, 2001
    Messages:
    11,703
    Likes Received:
    1
    Case closed as far as I am concerned.

    Was it ever open as far as you are concerned?
     
  19. BrianT

    BrianT
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 20, 2002
    Messages:
    3,516
    Likes Received:
    0
    A study of the word "epiphaneia" (Strong's #2015) is one of the main reasons I no longer accept the pretrib view. A few others are the study of "thief", "saints", and the parallels of 1 Cor 15:52 and 1 Thess 4:16-17 with Matt 24:29-31. The historical reasons are just the icing on the cake. [​IMG] I find it a little amusing that the "clear and obvious" doctrine of pretrib was missed for 1800 years. Once you take off your bias (it took me several months to discover and shed my own biases), you see there's nothing clear or obvious about it.
     
  20. Helen

    Helen
    Expand Collapse
    <img src =/Helen2.gif>

    Joined:
    Aug 29, 2001
    Messages:
    11,703
    Likes Received:
    1
    My husband and I were talking about this thread. What is interesting is that neither of us had read anything about the argument when each of us, quite apart from each other and a number of years ago, found that a pre-tribulation rapture, followed by the tribulation and then the millennial kingdom were what the Bible seemed to clearly indicate.

    So for at least two of us, it was simply something that was in the Bible, regardless of anyone else's thoughts or writings or history.
     

Share This Page

Loading...