THE BARBARIAN The relatively modern doctrine of Young Earth Creationism is rooted in the "prophesies" of a recent Seventh-Day-Adventist leader, and her popularizer, George McCready Price. http://www.counterbalance.net/history/floodgeo-frame.html I've been told, BTW, that some of the early fundamentalists, in the early 20th century, were actually evolutionists. Anyone know about that? KIFFIN I seriously doubt young earth creationist adopted their belief from the SDA. I think more likely is interpreting Genesis 1-2 literally plus a heavy reliance upon Anglican bishop Ussher belief that the earth is only 6,000 years old. Hugh Ross, a old earth Creationist has a book (I forget which one) which does examine a history of both young and old earth beliefs among Creationists. Both the young and old earth beliefs among Creationists can be found in the writings of Church Fathers and Protestant confessions. Evolution however has from what I have read been rejected by young and old earth Creationists alike. While young earth Creationists often misrepresent old earth Creationists by taking their beliefs out of context, I think this website conjurs up some data on young earth Creationists that is shaky. The Westminister Confession of Faith appears to have espoused a young earth view long before anyone heard of the SDA. So, I believe the accusations lack merit. OPTIONAL The "recent" creation/evolution debate was no doubt started by SDA, as they made it a salvational issue. Of course there were many who believed in a literal creation long before this. However, there was not the huge debate over it that we have today, nor was salvation attached to it. Today's phenomenon, tying belief in creation to salvation, was instigated by SDA. HAL PARKER It is claimed by some that Young Earth Creationism is a modern belief and that the early church allowed for an old Earth. Well, here are some more sources that show the early church believed in a young Earth. "Genesis means what it says: Basil (AD 329 - 379)" by Don Batten and David Watson in Creation Ex Nihilo 16(4):23 (September - November 1994). http://www.answersingenesis.org/home/area/magazines/docs/v16n4_basil.asp "Which is the recent aberration? Old-Earth or Young-Earth Belief?" by Don Batten http://www.answersingenesis.org/home/area/faq/docs/date_of_creation.asp "The Westminster View of Creation Days: A Choice between Non-Ambiguity or Historical Revisionism" by David W. Hall http://capo.org/creation.html I think these show the problem with trying to brand Young Earth Creation beliefs as new ideas. JOE MEERT It doesn't really matter when the idea of a young earth originated (shakespeare mentions a 6000 year old earth in "As you like it"). I believe the argument is about when it became a salvation issue. I don't have any handy reference that claims that these people thought the age of the earth was a salvation issue. What is more interesting is what happened when these young earth creationists went looking for evidence of a young earth and a global flood. They found that the rock record told them a completely different story about earth history. Slowly, but methodically, these young earth creationists presented solid evidence that the earth was old and that no global flood could be fit to the geologic record. Why 20th and 21st century creationists reject these sound arguments is for another discussion. However, there are NO DATA supporting a global flood and there is nothing to support a young earth. THE BARBARIAN Yes, that's right. While most of the YE arguments are from the last century, and a few from the Reformation (Luther used the same logic to correctly declare that a literal reading of the Bible required belief in the sun going around the Earth) even fundamentalist of just a few decades ago were mostly not YE creationists. Augustine, the most respected of early Christian theologians, pointed out the error of presuming all of scripture to be literal. But until the SDAs, YE creationism was a relatively uncommon belief. HELEN I never cease to be amazed at how many times I have given “Barbarian” the following link which is a researched paper on the early church and its stand on the age of the earth. Here, for the record, once again: http://www.robibrad.demon.co.uk/Contents.htm While Barbarian may consider Augustine the ‘most respected of theologians, there are others who have other preferences. And Joe, what you mean is that there is no data you will accept regarding a global flood or young earth. Plenty of scientists disagree with you.