History repeats itself

Discussion in 'History Forum' started by stanleyg, Oct 18, 2006.

  1. stanleyg

    stanleyg
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Jul 15, 2006
    Messages:
    70
    Likes Received:
    0
    President Abraham Lincoln tolerated the Southern Confederate Rebel Soldiers and/or their loyalists et al. to join our Northern Union (i.e. Federal Government).

    However, these Johnny Reb traitors have gone underground to concoct secret code names (e.g. moral majority or right wing etc. ) to over throw our libertarian form of democracy.

    Their political coup hinges upon dividing our Christian voters by exploiting morality politics (e.g. abortion, capital punishment or same-sex marriages etc.). As such, their campaign organizers entice preachers to propagate the Ten Commandments to proselyte new members to join their political coup to over throw our government.

    Their feud begin over the Articles of Confederation (AOC). The AOC was ratified by our Second Continental Congress in 1776. The Philadelphia Convention met in 1787 to repeal their AOC and ratify our United States Constitution (USC) in 1778.

    Almost one century later the Confederation and/or Democratic Party seceded from the Union to fight the Republican Party over a dispute regarding State sovereignty. The latter lead to our American Civil War . The Republican Party won the war. After the war, loyalists of the Democratic Party pushed through legislation of the Thirteenth Amendment that outlawed slavery for private citizens, yet legalized our Union to operate slavery as punishment for crime.

    The Democratic Party under the leadership of a lawyer President Woodrow Wilson pushed through the Eighteeth Amendment Prohibition against Alcohol as a shrewd manuver to gain political control of the House and Senate. The Prohibition boost the revenue of criminal lawyers. It created a black market to enslave ethnic groups (e.g. Italian or African American et al.). Their Prohibition escalated gang violence, prison overcrowding and massive deficits in our Union budget.

    The Republican Party under the leadership of humanitarian President Herbert Hoover pushed through the twenty-first Amendment to abolish the Prohibition.

    The latter terminated the black market for bootleg liquor. Gangs lost their primary resource of revenue and begin to die out. Public safety was restored. The necessity for police or criminal lawyers diminished. Prison population begin to decline. Our Union rolled back its massive deficits.

    Under strong political pressure by racial riots of the Civil Rights Movement and libertarians, who were opposed to the Vietnam War, Democratic President Lyndon Baines Johnson was compelled to sign the Civil Rights Act of 1964 and the Voting Rights Act of 1965. The conservatives of the Democratic and the libertarians of the Republican Parties defected their loyalties.

    The Diehard Democrats formed the Dixiecrat Party under Senator Strom Thurmond . It grew defunct due to its radical or racial ideologies. It's loyalists merged over into the Republican Party as the Moral Majority.

    In 1971 Republican President Richard M. Nixon declared the War on Drugs . Thirty five years later the Rebels have our Union back on the run. Gang violence, prison overcrowding and massive deficits have buried our Union. The War in Iraq has become our new Vietnam. History has repeated itself.
     
    #1 stanleyg, Oct 18, 2006
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 18, 2006
  2. Daisy

    Daisy
    Expand Collapse
    Banned

    Joined:
    Apr 1, 2003
    Messages:
    7,751
    Likes Received:
    0
    Why do you include so many Wiki links in your posts? You even linked "eg."
     
  3. stanleyg

    stanleyg
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Jul 15, 2006
    Messages:
    70
    Likes Received:
    0
    The dictionary and/or encyclopedia are academic tools for learning. He or she may presume they know without searching to be sure.

    Never assume anything or overlook the obvious. As a researcher, my job is to report on the definition of words big or small.

    Since, it is no skin off anyone's nose, except mines, why should it bother anyone?

    Best rule of thumb is that if one doesn't need to view the link then don't click it.

    There may be some, who are grateful that I take time to insert links to words, phrases, titles or acronyms etc.

    It is common courtesy to respect foreign visitors, who may view our message board, yet lack our linguistic skills in English.
     
  4. Daisy

    Daisy
    Expand Collapse
    Banned

    Joined:
    Apr 1, 2003
    Messages:
    7,751
    Likes Received:
    0
    Do you do it by hand or programatically?
     
  5. Baptist Believer

    Baptist Believer
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 20, 2002
    Messages:
    6,655
    Likes Received:
    189
    I'm having a hard time taking anything you say seriously because of glaring historical errors. For instance, you start off this series of assertions with something that I believe is incorrect:

    Abraham Lincoln was assasinated immediately after the conclusion of the Civil War, so the Radical Republicans ensured that the states formerly in rebellion went through a dark period of Reconstruction. Lincoln did not have the opportunity to do what you claim, and the states formerly in rebellion did not have political self-control for a number of years to come.

    That's harsh and unsubstantiated rhetoric.

    You have your facts mixed up. The Radical Republicans, not the Democrats, pushed through the amendments outlawing slavery.

    There are also numerous other problems, but I don't have time to go through them.
     
  6. rbell

    rbell
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 16, 2006
    Messages:
    11,103
    Likes Received:
    0
    stanleyg,

    I hope your US history teacher was pretty forgiving.

    Hey, if your current career doesn't work out, you should consider writing fiction. You have a vivid imagination.
     
  7. stanleyg

    stanleyg
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Jul 15, 2006
    Messages:
    70
    Likes Received:
    0
    Talk is cheap. Cite your references so I can review them.

    Lincoln was alive at the end of the war. He could and should have declared the Rebels as traitors for fighting against our U.S. Flag.

    Yes, the Republicans pushed to abolish slavery and the Democrats pushed to legalize it as punishment for crime. Learn to comprehend what you read.
     
    #7 stanleyg, Oct 19, 2006
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 19, 2006
  8. rbell

    rbell
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 16, 2006
    Messages:
    11,103
    Likes Received:
    0
    so...if we string together a bunch of unrelated wiki links, that somehow counts as credible references?

    Somehow, I doubt that burden of proof would earn a "c" on a seventh-grade term paper.

    I'm still laughing at your ridiculous assertion that pro-life folk are reincarnated Confederate soldiers. If writing fiction doesn't work out for you, try comedy.
     
  9. Scott J

    Scott J
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 25, 2001
    Messages:
    8,462
    Likes Received:
    0
    "tolerated"... Try "forced".

    Actually, Johnny Reb was standing for the absolute constitutional RIGHT to secede from the Union. Further, they were standing for the notion that when the 10th Amendment said "reserved to the states and the people" that's what it meant.

    Further, it wasn't/isn't these who have presented the primary threat to our libertarian form of democracy/republicanism. It has been the "progressive socialists" who have been intent, and largely successful, in the centralization of power and confiscation of rights since Lincoln proved that might always trumps right.

    Abortion and capital punishment are not "morality politics". The libertarians who started our nation instituted capital punishment for murder as well as other crimes.

    Abortion's legality isn't a moral issue any more than murder or stealing is. It is a "rights" issue. The fundamental question is, "Does the free exercise of a freedom (engaging in sex) with known consequences result in a "super-right" to end another person's life when the consequences are not desirable?" Any and all reasoning that can be used to justify abortion can be used to justify virtually every crime on the book. Further, most laws have a moral aspect to them.
    The implementation of these two laws was far, far from "libertarian". There is nothing libertarian about forced bussing or quotas.
    The massive deficits are directly the result of social spending started by FDR and grown up through Carter. Though I personally would give on the legality of drugs issues if all social spending and government interference in the consequences of choosing to use drugs were rolled back... drug enforcement and law enforcement in general ARE NOT the cause of deficits.
    Nope. We are fighting an enemy and an ideology that is both hostile to us and dangerous to our security. This enemy and its ideological allies have repeatedly attacked us and our interests. With religious fervor, this enemy makes no qualms about the fact that they will not and cannot rest until the world is Islamic. By their interpretation, which apparently is the literal one, Muslims are supposed to spread Islam... and use force if necessary to remove resistance.

    Only the genuinely naive would believe that Islam and communism are comparable and especially concerning the zeal of those who seek to fight its battles.
    Indeed. Another revisionist has selectively ignored the impact of socialism while lamenting the "Johnny come lately religious conservatives" who find the only way to battle social/economic liberalism is on the "field chosen by the enemy"- the government.

    I am all for de-centralization and disempowerment of the federal gov't. I am not for abandoning the field to socialists and social liberal dictators. Social liberals are not libertarian. They have no interest in allowing people like me to promote our views about morality. They want to dictate their views to us and use the education system to indoctrinate our children in direct contradiction to our values.... all in the name of tolerance of course.
     
  10. Scott J

    Scott J
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 25, 2001
    Messages:
    8,462
    Likes Received:
    0
    BTW, I would be perfectly happy to disempower the gov't so that it could not effect a social change/outcome then let my views on morality compare with those of liberals in the free marketplace of ideals and commerce. Would you really?
     
  11. Not_hard_to_find

    Not_hard_to_find
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2006
    Messages:
    713
    Likes Received:
    0
    The linkies have to be by hand -- to substitute 'Liberalism' for the typed 'libertarian' was deliberate. Appears as though mis-direction was intended from the beginning -- to the end!

    Waste of time. Nothing of interest, and mindset is blatant.
     
  12. LadyEagle

    LadyEagle
    Expand Collapse
    <b>Moderator</b> <img src =/israel.gif>
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2002
    Messages:
    22,028
    Likes Received:
    1
    Moving this to the history forum. I imagine the history buffs over there might have a thing or three to say.....
     
  13. rsr

    rsr
    Expand Collapse
    <b> 7,000 posts club</b>
    Administrator

    Joined:
    Dec 11, 2001
    Messages:
    10,073
    Likes Received:
    101
    Wilson only practiced law a year-and-a-half. He was primarily an academic politician.

    While he supported temperance, he opposed total prohibition and even vetoed (to no effect) the Volstead Act that implemented the 18th Amendment.

    Both parties were split between wets and drys; together, the wets already had a majority, as exemplified by the vote on the Sheppard Act, which made the District of Columbia dry.


    Repeal was a bipartisan affair, although it drew more support from Democrats than Republicans.

    More garbled history. The passage of the Civil Rights Act and the Voting Rights Act had nothing to do with the Vietnam War, which was barely a blip on the radar screen in 1964 and 1965. Johnson wasn't compelled to sign the Civil Rights Act; he jawed and cajoled Congress into passing it.
     
  14. carpro

    carpro
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 14, 2004
    Messages:
    20,897
    Likes Received:
    294
    "Should have" is, of course, purely your opinion.

    It sounds like you think Lincoln should have severely punished the rebellious states by...doing what exactly? Hold them in subjugation and under martial law for ...how long? Hang how many of the ex soldiers? All of them?

    I shudder to think what would have been the result if he had done as you suggest.

    Could be we would have had another civil war or a series of them until another President as wise as Lincoln came along and ended that insanity.

    I like the way it actually happened a lot better.
     
  15. JGrubbs

    JGrubbs
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Feb 4, 2004
    Messages:
    4,761
    Likes Received:
    0
    Here is another example of how history repeats itself:

    President John Adams insisted that the Alien and Sedition Acts were necessary to save American lives, and he used those acts to jail newspaper editors.

    In 1862, when copperhead democrats began criticizing Lincoln's violation of the Constitution, Lincoln suspended habeas corpus throughout the nation and had many copperhead democrats arrested under military authority because he felt that the State Courts in the north west would not convict war protesters such as the copperheads. Over 13,000 people in the North were arrested during this time for speaking out against Lincoln, including many newspaper editors. Finally, in 1866, after the war, the Supreme Court officially restored habeas corpus in Ex-parte Milligan, ruling that military trials in areas where the civil courts were capable of functioning were illegal.

    President Woodrow Wilson insisted that the Espionage Act was necessary to save American lives, and he used that Act to prosecute 2,000 Americans, especially those he disparaged as "Hyphenated Americans," most of whom were guilty only of advocating peace in a time of war.

    President Franklin D. Roosevelt insisted that Executive Order 9066 was necessary to save American lives, and he uses that order to imprison and pauperize 110,000 Americans while his man in charge, General DeWitt, told Congress: "It makes no difference whether he is an American citizen - he is still a Japanese."

    We now see Bush attempting this again with the Military Commissions Act that he signed last week.

    "If Tyranny and Oppression come to this land, it will be in the guise of fighting a foreign enemy." —James Madison
     
    #15 JGrubbs, Oct 25, 2006
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 25, 2006
  16. Not_hard_to_find

    Not_hard_to_find
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2006
    Messages:
    713
    Likes Received:
    0
    Where are we now as a result of the above listed presidents?
     
  17. Baptist Believer

    Baptist Believer
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 20, 2002
    Messages:
    6,655
    Likes Received:
    189
    Since you gave no concise references to support your specific assertions, you need to cite your sources first.

    Sort of, but not really.

    He lived for four days after Lee surrendered his army, but because of the realities of communication in those days, there were still Confederate divisions in the field that knew nothing of Lee's surrender. The war really didn't wrap up for several months.

    From the Wikipedia article on the Civil War:
    "Lee surrendered his Army of Northern Virginia on April 9, 1865, at Appomattox Court House. In an untraditional gesture and as a sign of Grant's respect and anticipation of folding the Confederacy back into the Union with dignity and peace, Lee was permitted to keep his officer's saber and his near-legendary horse, Traveller. Johnston surrendered his troops to Sherman on April 26, 1865, in Durham, North Carolina. On June 23, 1865, at Fort Towson in the Choctaw Nations' area of the Oklahoma Territory, Stand Watie signed a cease-fire agreement with Union representatives, becoming the last Confederate general in the field to stand down. The last Confederate naval force to surrender was the CSS Shenandoah on November 4, 1865, in Liverpool, England."

    Lincoln did not have the opportunity to do what you claim because of his assasination. Furthermore, what kind of punishment would you recommend toward most of the able-bodies men and boys of the Southern United States? Execution? It would be an unprecedented bloodbath and a stain on history. Imprisonment? Not enough jails and incredible hardship on half the nation and the business interests of the North. A punative program of "reconstruction"? That's exactly what the Republicans did.
     

Share This Page

Loading...