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HIV child rejected

Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by gerald285, Jul 8, 2007.

  1. Hope of Glory

    Hope of Glory New Member

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    I will hopefully have time to come back and post more later, but for now, I want to post a quote from the CDC link posted above. (I'll try to find the basketball article later, but if I remember correctly, it was first posted here on the BB.)

    Sounds like the doublespeak the government used to use in telling us that it couldn't be spread through blood transfusions, and how they used to say that those who thought it could were just being a bunch of nuts.

    But, I would recommend you take a look at this site: AIDS: What the government isn't telling us

    As to Jesus, please show me where he recommended that children spend some real quality time with those who have deadly contagious diseases. He did. I would. But, I wouldn't knowingly subject my children to it.
     
  2. gerald285

    gerald285 New Member

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    Hope of Glory,
    I could not get the link to work for some reason, but you are correct in that we should never expect anyone to be subject too danger without them being advised if we have the information.

     
  3. tinytim

    tinytim <img src =/tim2.jpg>

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    I WAS being sarcastic... and what truth did I miss...

    Surely you're not referring to all the conspiracy theories, and mis information about HIV...

    You said that we should not take even the smallest of chances with our children....

    What would you do if a family that had an HIV child wanted to come to your church?

    Exclude the child from everything?

    Yeah, Jesus would have done that!!! (sarcasm)

    Tell all other members (Gossip)

    Tell the family no.... (explain that on Judgement day)

    Pass out detox suits at the door for the "clean" members... (OK, I am being ridiculous)

    Every church that runs a nursery should promote safety. Period...
    Gloves for diaper changes... or first aid (That is a given)...
    Biters should never be allowed in the nursery...

    Toys should be cleaned reguarly with Bleach... (duh)
    Etc...

    If proper precautions are already in place, then there should not be a problem when children come to church...

    And since you will never know who have HIV and who doesn't...
    The only other option is to give HIV tests to all visitors....(Yeah, that will keep them coming)

    And I don't get the statement about how the church should not be focused on evangelism... are you saying that there are no Christians with HIV?

    Let's just set up HIV friendly churches in each city...and when they associate with others, they can yell out "HIV person here" , "HIV person here"

    All I am saying is, adopt safety procedures now before this situation arises.. and that way you will be prepared... educate your people, especially youth workers about the need to be cautious... do the right thing. But don't exclude children... The disciples tried to and Jesus rebuked them...

    Take precautions now...

    Because you will never know when someone with HIV is sitting next to you....

    BTW, we are currently redoing our nursery, and are looking at making the whole church kid friendly and safe...

    This issue is currently being looked at by the ones that are involved in moving our nursery from the 20th century to the 21st century...

    Every church that loves children will have to confront this eventually... I bet insurance companies will eventually be involved...
     
    #43 tinytim, Jul 9, 2007
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 9, 2007
  4. Hope of Glory

    Hope of Glory New Member

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  5. tinytim

    tinytim <img src =/tim2.jpg>

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    What makes the author of this book anexpert?

    My wife did a study back in 1989 on HIV... does that make her an expert?

    I guess it all boils down to who are you going to believe.... someone that wants to sale a book by using scare tactics... or real experts in the field of disease prevention....

    I will take the CDC anyday over someone that promotes themselves as an expert...
     
  6. rbell

    rbell Active Member

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    sorry, but this "Dr. Day" sounds like a kook.

    I explored the site...there were some pretty ridiculous claims on it...included that "smallpox is not contagious."

    Wish someone would've told one of my ancestors that, who caught it and died from it in the early 1800's.
     
  7. Hope of Glory

    Hope of Glory New Member

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    One acronym: HPV.
     
  8. Filmproducer

    Filmproducer Guest

    What in the world are you talking about now? What does the Human Papaloma Virus have to do with HIV?

    BTW, of the quote you posted, (no I didn't bother to read the entire link), it specifically says that HIV was found in the saliva of some AIDS patients. Please note that there are differences between persons with HIV, (the virus that causes AIDS), and persons with actual full blown AIDS.

    Gerald,

    Your posts continually seem to imply that an HIV infected person would not be a member of a church, (your church), but rather a visitor. What are you going to do if it is found that a member has HIV, but has not told anyone? Excomunicate them? If it is a child that has already been in the nursery/sunday school/youth group are you going to forbid the parents from letting them return? Even if they have had the virus and not one person has "caught" the disease from "them"?
     
  9. npetreley

    npetreley New Member

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    What if it turns out that HIV is actually a benign virus and it doesn't cause AIDS at all?
     
  10. Hope of Glory

    Hope of Glory New Member

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    As has been stated repeatedly, the others need to be permitted to make an informed decision.

    A very dear friend of mine died of AIDS. He made sure that everywhere he went, he wasn't being sneaky and trying to hide anything. He wasn't proud of it at all, but wanted those around him to make in informed decision.

    Of course, you read all the time in the paper (well, before I moved here) about people who have the HIV virus, and then infect multiple sex partners because they think they have a "right to privacy". Well, promiscuity is certainly something that should be avoided, but do you think these creeps have the right to privacy and not inform others of their condition?
     
  11. Hope of Glory

    Hope of Glory New Member

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    By taking the government at their word, and ignoring the naysayers (who are experts, but disagree with the mainstream), several young girls have now died.

    The same with AIDS. Many experts disagree with the mainstream on several issues surrounding AIDS, HIV, etc. But, back in the day, those who said you could get HIV from blood transfusions were called "extremists", and other names that those like Dr. Day (who was one of the early experts in the field) are being called.

    BTW, as far as the small pox thing goes, conditions also change. Think about how many people used to die from influenza, but we have different conditions now.
     
  12. Filmproducer

    Filmproducer Guest

    Talk about apples and oranges HOG. You mean to tell me you do not see a difference between an HIV infected person not informing sexual partners of the risk, and an HIV infected church member not informing the church? How utterly absurd!! Fact of the matter is HIV is NOT even remotely close to leprosy AND there are multiple other diseases infinitely more contagious. In fact the fear of HIV is somewhat extreme given that no one has yet to DOCUMENT a CONFIRMED case of "HIV through casual contact only". Why not just make each church member fill out a health form before being able to join, and have them update said form every 6 months to be on the safe side. It's better to be on the "safe side", right? :BangHead:

    No wonder the world looks at the church as hypocritical and full of hot air. The testimony of some certainly does ruin it for the rest of us. How very, very sad indeed. But of course, it's just the big, bad government out to get us by feeding us false information about the disease. We can't trust the doctors dedicated to researching this disease because many of them work with/and for the government or drug companies, but we can trust "Dr." Joe Schmo "expert" because he has come to a completely different conclusion removed from "influence". :tear:
     
  13. Filmproducer

    Filmproducer Guest

    And that has nothing to do with HPV the disease, but rather a vaccination for HPV....

    Don't think anyone here has said the drug companies are perfect. I for one question a lot of the pushing for new "drugs", which, of course, is an entirely different issue than virology.
     
    #53 Filmproducer, Jul 10, 2007
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 10, 2007
  14. npetreley

    npetreley New Member

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    Maybe someone on here has information to correct my concerns, but what if you can get HIV from a blood transfusion, but HIV doesn't cause AIDS? What if the person who tests positive on HIV from a blood transfusion doesn't get AIDS from HIV -- but gets AIDS from one of the very toxic medications used to treat HIV? How would anyone know they got AIDS from the meds instead of from HIV?
     
  15. rbell

    rbell Active Member

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    Using Dr. Day probably doesn't further your point too much. Some of her outlandish claims on her site kind of nixes her credibility.

    I don't want to hijack too far here, but it does go back to her credibility, so I'll say it: According to Day, smallpox isn't contagious. Conditions don't matter....that is simply a ridiculous, erroneous statement.

    I know that's off the "beaten path" of the current discussion just a bit...but if a doc is that far out there on one subject, it makes me suspicious that she's wrong on others as well.
     
  16. tinytim

    tinytim <img src =/tim2.jpg>

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    I really, really hope you are talking about the ones with HIV/AIDS that still sleep around without telling their partners.... and not talking about children that have been born with HIV....

    Children with HIV that want their privacy are not Creeps.
     
  17. Hope of Glory

    Hope of Glory New Member

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    These kids aren't predators, but the others are, even if their victims are in the wrong for being promiscuous.

    BTW, FP, I think it was pretty obvious that I was talking about believing the official government line in the face of so much opposition (even if the minority) and not comparing HPV to HIV. IOW, I was comparing the official government line that the HPV vaccine is safe and necessary has killed at least 3, just as the official government line that HIV isn't spread through transfusions has infected so many people.

    You can expand the list to include their official take on global warming and the causes for it, among other things.
     
  18. Hope of Glory

    Hope of Glory New Member

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    BTW, I had researched her credentials years ago, and except for those who are appalled at her political incorrectness, there seems to be little that taints her name. She was one of the most prolific doctors to work on AIDS patients, but was castigated for wearing her "space suit" to perform surgeries. Yet, she still had patients.

    As to the smallpox thing, you might want to read the sources, including at least one person who tried to prove that it was actually contagious. Here's a quote and a link to a different source:

    linkie linkie
     
  19. Hope of Glory

    Hope of Glory New Member

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    More quotes from other sources about smallpox vaccine:

    Wallace and Tebb proved with government statistics that the first 100 years of smallpox vaccination was a complete failure. Epidemics of smallpox followed vaccination which was why they repealed the compulsory vaccination law. And even if they had eliminated smallpox, the deaths from other causes rose to compensate, in all likelihood caused by vaccination:

    "The smallpox vaccine is the most reactive (disease causing) vaccine that we have ever used," said Barbara Loe Fisher, spokeswoman for the National Vaccine Information Center. "I do know that brain complications occurred within one to six weeks of the original smallpox vaccination, most frequently after the first dose, and that the reaction rate was between 1 in 159 and 1 in every 6,500 vaccinated persons."
     
  20. Ed Edwards

    Ed Edwards <img src=/Ed.gif>

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    I note a Google of 'Wallace and Tebb' produces
    2 hits. Tomorrow there should be three
    hits, one on baptist board (see post #59 above).

    IMHO such misinformation about serious
    life choices is
    un-American (or perchance un-Canadian),
    un-Baptist, and un-Christian.
    IMHO Baptist board should prohibit
    the posting of such misinformation.

    BTW, HOG - read the accreditation rules here.
     
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