HOF: Mark McGuire?

Discussion in 'Sports' started by EdSutton, Jul 20, 2007.

  1. EdSutton

    EdSutton
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    Not necessarily. It does help get my post count up, and is fun for discussion, I would guess, as well. It is what it is, and I'm probably not going to have any effect on it unless and until I become a member of the BBWWA.

    I have suggested a couple I think should probably be included, already, especially Buck O'Neil, and Bert Blyleven. Mark McGwire (583 HR, 1414 RBI, 1317 BB, .263 BA, .394 OBP, .588 Slg., .993 Fldg, with the 'weakest' part of his game, his BA, but contrasted to the strongest part, his HR to AB ratio, better than anyone who played the game, including Babe Ruth and by far, Hank Aaron, if my memory serves) deserves it as well, today's PC over 'steroids' notwithstanding. He broke no rules that were in place, so why 'punish' him ex post facto. In fact, isn't that one principle of our own Constitution?? Yep, I just looked it up! Neither the Congress nor the states are permitted to pass any ex post facto laws. Obviously, that standard does not apply to the HOF (or cycling)! :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

    I ain't hardly ready to add Bill Freehan to my sugestions, however.

    Ed
     
    #1 EdSutton, Jul 20, 2007
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 20, 2007
  2. Andy T.

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    If McGwire took steroids or HGH, then it was cheating and against the rules of MLB (and Federal Law). The only difference between then and now was the enforcement and well-defined penalties. There was no testing to enforce the rules, and the only penalty was at the discretion of the Commish.

    So if Mac took either roids or HGH, which many suspect, then he violated the rules and should be left out of the Hall, IMO.
     
  3. EdSutton

    EdSutton
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    McGwire long ago admitted using androstenedione, a dietary supplement neither illegal nor banned by baseball at the time. (It has since been banned.) And he refused to 'finger' anyone else, when he testified before Congress, much to the annoyance of those hunting for a scapegoat, and incurring some wrath, as well.

    I personally, am not willing to ban him only on the basis of Jose Canseco's book, but apparantly many are. Let's say that another 'suspect', Sammy Sosa could be found innocent of any and all allegations about steroids. Should not he be banned beacuse he was found using a corked bat? That's cheating, as well. And shouldn't Gaylord Perry be removed from the Hall. He was more than once tossed out of games for the "Monsoon season" when he pitched. Where does this stop?

    Shouldn't Ty Cobb, be removed? He deliberately tried to hurt people by 'sliding' into bases with his legs high and with razor sharp spikes! And how about tossing every pitcher that deliberately threw at an opponent's head? Bet that would get the number of pitchers down real quick. Again, where does the PC 'self-righteousness' end??

    Ed
     
  4. EdSutton

    EdSutton
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    BTW, steroids, per se, are not illegal under Federal Law. They can be, and are prescribed by doctors, and I have had such a prescribing after surgery, one time. That statement is simply incorrect.

    And baseball had no prohibition against steroids when McGwire played, either, although they do today. Remember what I said about "ex post facto?"

    Ed
     
    #4 EdSutton, Jul 20, 2007
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 20, 2007
  5. TomVols

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    Does Big Mac belong in the HOF?

    This started in the other thread, but I moved it here because it's worthy of its own thread
     
    #5 TomVols, Jul 20, 2007
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  6. EdSutton

    EdSutton
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    Thanks for the info.

    I wondered how I got to start a thread without trying to. But I would have appreciated first being asked, FTR.

    Ed
     
  7. TomVols

    TomVols
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    My apologies if this took you off guard. It was not my intent to offend you; I just wanted the discussion to take place in a thread that was germane and not derail a thread off-topic.
     
  8. gymforlord

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    Yes, I think he does-There is so much hysteria about steroids & I don't think Big Mac was some high grade offender...
     
  9. Faith alone

    Faith alone
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    Ed,

    He has great stats, and when he and Soso made that run on 61 HRs, it was so much fun watching it all. But this is not a court of law. It was cheating, and Mac knew it at the time, though it was not illegal. (Why claim he was using adenosteen*&^#$... ?? or whatever he claimed to be using if he wasn't concerned about admitting to steroid use?) It was unethical. I really liked Mac, and I bought what he said hook, line and sinker at the time.

    But as far as I am concerned, it was all a sham. Baseball is a game of records... it has so much more history behind it than any of the other Pro sports in America. If we put him in the HOF what message does that send to present players, or those who aren't quite good enough but could be very good with some chemical help?

    Mac knew that if he openly admitted to steroid use that the public outrage would have been horrific. They would have quickly banned it as well, ending his career, and he was making a lot of money in baseball.

    So because what he did was highly unethical and dishonest, if I had a vote - no way I'd vote him, Sosa or Bonds into the HOF. (Well, actually, Bonds had already had a great enough career before he began sulking up on droids and HGH that I'd perhaps vote him in. He would have made it without the chemical help.) But as far as I am concerned... the season HR record is 61 Hrs, amd the career record is stilll 755 - and will remain such even after Bonds passes it up. I'll wait on A-rod... he's not on droids, right?! :tear:

    But regarding Mac... I don't think he would have had much of a major league career without droids, if any at all.

    FA
     
    #9 Faith alone, Jul 30, 2007
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 30, 2007

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