Holiness is not Legalism

Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by T Alan, Dec 18, 2014.

  1. T Alan

    T Alan
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    Some are Confusing Holiness for Legalism.
    Can one be Holy without being labeled as a Legalist?


    2 Corinthians 7:1King James Version
    7 Having therefore these promises, dearly beloved, let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit, perfecting holiness in the fear of God.

    1 Peter 1:
    14 As obedient children, not fashioning yourselves according to the former lusts in your ignorance:
    15 But as he which hath called you is holy, so be ye holy in all manner of conversation;
    16 Because it is written, Be ye holy; for I am holy.

    Hebrews 12:14
    14 Follow peace with all men, and holiness, without which no man shall see the Lord:

    2 Timothy 1:9
    9 Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,

    Psalm 139:23-24
    23 Search me, O God, and know my heart: try me, and know my thoughts:
    24 And see if there be any wicked way in me, and lead me in the way everlasting.

    Romans 12:1
    12 I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service.

    Philippians 2:5
    5 Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:

    Psalm 119:9
    9 Wherewithal shall a young man cleanse his way? by taking heed thereto according to thy word.

    Ezekiel 38:23
    23 Thus will I magnify myself, and sanctify myself; and I will be known in the eyes of many nations, and they shall know that I am the Lord.

    1 Thessalonians 4:7 -
    For God hath not called us unto uncleanness, but unto holiness.

    Hebrews 12:14 -
    Follow peace with all [men], and holiness, without which no man shall see the Lord:

    2 Timothy 2:21 - If a man therefore purge himself from these, he shall be a vessel unto honour, sanctified, and meet for the master's use, [and] prepared unto every good work.

    1 Thessalonians 4:4
    That every one of you should know how to possess his vessel in sanctification and honour;
     
  2. T Alan

    T Alan
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  3. Scarlett O.

    Scarlett O.
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    And some confuse legalism for holiness. (Not you, I'm thinking in general terms.)

    It depends on what one's motivations for his or her behavior and Christian lifestyle are and how one presents his or her motivations to other believers.
     
  4. T Alan

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    Thank you, :) for the vote of confidence. My motives are to be pleasing before Christ, He is worthy.
     
  5. InTheLight

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    If you think that keeping a set of rules will make you more holy--not having images of Jesus in your house, not listening to CCM, only using the KJV, wearing a tie to church, etc.--and therefore, win more favor from God, you are practicing legalism.
     
  6. Revmitchell

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    Who are these people?
     
  7. InTheLight

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    Apparently the same ones that worship images of Jesus.
     
  8. T Alan

    T Alan
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    This Thread did not ask for "things that make a person a legalist ". Thanks however for the definition.

    They would be "cut from the same cloth".

    good read if you would like to know more. I posted it earlier.

    http://endtimepilgrim.org/holiness.htm
     
  9. T Alan

    T Alan
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    Here's another definition of the modern definition for legalism.

    "Legalism is what a person calls any system that has them observe laws which they don't agree with, and a legalist is anyone who stands theologically to the right of where they stand." WisemanSay
     
  10. T Alan

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    from: http://www.mountainretreatorg.net/faq/what_is_legalism.shtml

    "So what is legalism really? Simply put, legalism is any belief system that supports the contention that man's salvation is in some way connected to his own works through obedience to God's law. That is to say, salvation either through maintaining good conduct, or some other meritorious action. Those who believe that man can get into the Kingdom of Heaven by a strict adherence to the law of God, or who believe that we are toiling in this world to become worthy before Him, are legalists. Whether these people believe that we must meet certain conditions (as baptism or church membership), or that we must maintain a strict adherence to laws in order to keep from losing salvation, these are all examples of legalists. In one way or another they believe that salvation in some way dependent upon man's obedience to the law (thus the term, legalist). In holding such doctrines that are contrary to God's divine Word, they become an adversary to the gospel truth of salvation by the faith of Christ (Grace) alone. For God not only makes it abundantly clear how we are justified in His sight, but also how we can never be justified."
     
  11. evangelist6589

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    Exactly!!! Also not drinking alcohol can be included.
     
  12. evangelist6589

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    http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00E43V9WM/?tag=baptis04-20

    This is a great book written by a variety of authors whom all give different perspectives on the topic of legalism. While the book is not an easy read like those written by Francis Chan & David Platt, its certainly far easier to understand than those written by the puritans.

    I wish the book had a topical & scripture index as my main complaints, besides some occasional grammar/spelling errors. From the very introduction a definition of legalism is given which is an obsessive concern with rules, paying more attention to the letter of the law than the spirit, and those more concerned with law than grace. Throughout the chapter the author better defines a legalist and speaking from experience I know exactly what he is talking about as I had previously attended a school in the south with a good portion of the students and faculty I believed to be legalists of some stripe. For example there was a number of students that would not join my team in street evangelism because they would see inappropriately dressed unbelievers, and or be around unbelievers that drank alcohol, which was sad because Jesus himself ate with tax collectors and sinners! In the next chapter Dr. Steven Lawson writes well and explains the difference between Truth & Tradition. He defines tradition as “any man-made rules and regulations contrary to the word of God that must be kept for either salvation of sanctification”(9). He defines Truth as the study of God (9). We live in a day with a number of churches that are loaded with traditions and follow them more than God. Roman Catholics, The Plymouth Brethren, Missionary Baptists are a few legalistic groups. Lawson speaks about the conflict Christ and the “separatist” Pharisee’s had in his day whom were not very concerned with inward transformation or Holiness. Lawson makes his point clear on page 12 that legalists spend all their time only with Christians but not with unbelievers. He further clarifies this point on page 17 and challenges believers to engage the world with the gospel and this certainly means being involved in street evangelism, homeless out reach, jail ministry, nursing home ministry, and the like to reach the lost. The Chapter the Cross is Enough by Bruce Bickel is another highlight to the book as in the chapter Dr. Bickel makes his case that Christians need not be obsessed with fads, toys, seminars, camps, retreats, new books, videos, blogs, and all the new hypes these days designed to improve one’s relationship with God. The book market is very big and authors make allot of money selling ideas to people that want a spiritual hype. Unfortunately I also have fallen prey to this in some of my book purchases over the years. Bickel makes a good case that we need not be concerned with WWJD meaning “What Would Jesus Do?” but rather WHJD “What Has Jesus Done” which leaves out the subjective but solely focuses on the objective of the Bible. On page 48 Bickel explains the differences between legalism, Licentiousness, and Grace, and sadly today most of the professing church probably falls in the category of Licentiousness which means they can sin all they want, for God does not care. The next highlight of the book is John MacArthur’s Chapter called Obedience: Love or Legalism. In this chapter Mac attempts to reason with the reader the position of Lordship Salvation promoted in many of his books and that the true disciple of God will want to obey Christ because he/she has been born from above. Also the many that call Christian’s legalists because they follow the Bible, study the Bible, and or take the Word seriously may indeed be false converts or as Charles Stanley would say they are walking in the flesh. Whatever is the case Mac uses plenty of scripture to justify his position against the antinomianism attitude of today’s professing church. The legalist will obey God out of duty to fulfill a requirement for a school, church, or to merit salvation, but a true follower out of love, and a desire to grow in Holiness, and also to gain rewards in the next life. Dr. Erwin Lutzer wrote an excellent book on this topic called “Your Eternal reward” which speaks of the judgment seat of Christ and of those obeying God to gain rewards in the next life, which should be the motive behind a true disciple.

    I have not yet finished this book but will add more to this review when completed. I received this book from the publisher in exchange for writing a balanced review.
     
  13. Revmitchell

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    Who are these people?
     
  14. Rolfe

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    Second that.
     
  15. T Alan

    T Alan
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    Well, because you asked twice; and I'm a sport, to name a few although, I'd rather just say "some" even "Many".

    Portia Pearsall,Ema Ellis,Mara Martine,Lavonne Lescarbeau,Francie Fort
    Sudie Showman,Anglea Auston,Shawnee Serna,Sonya Stanfill,
    Leighann Lumsden,Deane Doshier,Jarvis Jardine,Mark Milici.
    Digmar Depp, Rhea Ruvalcaba,Melodee Moorhouse, Mitch Mennerson
    Rosalind Radovich. Mark Mader, Audry Aparicio, Lindy Lentine
    Jestine Jeanbaptiste Mitchell Mrugnoli, Alaine Arden,Alexandria Arambula
    Mark Manuelito, Virgil Vasbinder,Myrtle Morillo, Coralie Chien
    Michelle Meserve,Joella Julia, Silas Steven,Evangeline Ettinger
    Jacquie Joly,Gil Griffis, Karyn Koski,Arturo Avey, Claudio Conaway
    Magdalen Mccullers, Jenniffer Jahn, Mark Manke,Helga Herald
    Avelina Amaker,Roma Reeb, Woodrow Wales, Napoleon Nieman
    Julissa Jimerson, Kristi Kimbrough, Rivka Reiss, Mitchell Melgar

    *draws breath and slows down

    Elmira Esquer,Wilford Wooden,Newton Norton,Steven Spitz
    Shaunta Sherman, Patrina Perl , Clare Chilcott , Corrine Canales,
    Brandy Bjerke, Brittney Barbe, Lakeisha Lillard, Clarisa Chittenden,
    Casey Council, Loraine Lightsey, Pauletta Pollman, and son,
    Bob Body, Odell Ovalle , Elinore Esters, Donnell Denley, Joni Janusz,
    Felix Fouse, Petrina Putla, Jean Jaworski, Demetrius Desantiago,
    Jeni Jessup Sal Sippel Rikki Rivet Esta Effler Freda Forth
    Mahalia Madore, Elina Etzel, Von Vangilder, Herlinda Harriger,
    Miki Mattice, Claudette Conyers, Naomi Napper, Krystal Kelty,
    Noble Nolette, Marlon Mcquaid, Doretha Dahlstrom, Staci Swanson,
    Graig Goltz, Gemma Galland , Ira Isabelle , Henriette Husain,
    Ronny Royals, Elfrieda Escoto, Loralee Leavitt , Marine Mellish,
    Anna Arden

    and many more that I don't know but I'm sure you do. ;)


    *This list was generated at random and no name is as far as I know an actual person, it was meant as a sarcastic response to Reverend Mitchell's great question;as if he doesn't know already.
     
  16. The Biblicist

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    Repentance from sin is what you are speaking about. This is not merely an action but an attitude that characterizes the new inward man. He who is still in love with sin is still in his sins. He who loves darkness is still in darkness.

    The evidence of genuine salvation is a CHANGED person in regard to sin. Where there is no CHANGED person there is no salvation - period.

    That change is abrupt and immediate at the point of new birth in regard to how one VIEWS sin but it is progressive in how one DEALS with sin. It is never completed until glorification.
     
    #16 The Biblicist, Dec 20, 2014
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 20, 2014
  17. salzer mtn

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    I noticed several scripture using the words Holy and sanctification. I am afraid if one thought he could fulfill these scripture he would think himself perfect. It happens in a lot of denominations that so called Christians think they are living in a state of sanctification. What I believe, is the requirements God demands, he fulfills in the person of His Son. Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone that believeth, Rom 10:4. Christ worked out a perfect obedient righteousness to the Father while here on earth by keeping the laws demands and his obedience in going to the cross that is imputed to the believer, 11 Cor 5:21 For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin ; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him, 1 Cor 1:30 But of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God, is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption, Jer 23:6. One has to be careful with scripture and not make them a set of rules or laws that they can never fulfill. On has to look outside of himself to Christ for righteousness and quit looking in word, that will only bring condemnation to the conscience. One can be so ignorant of God's righteousness as the Jews in Rom 10:3 that they cannot discern scripture and then go about to establish their own righteousness. I believe the gospel; is to submit ourselves to the Righteousness of Christ. Paul realized this when he said in Phill 3:9 when he said he wanted to be found in Him (Christ) not having my own righteousness, which is the law, but that which is through faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith. Christ is all things to me. Everything I need for salvation is found in Him.
     
  18. Benjamin

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    I recently defended against that very claim about Wesley being a legalist/holiness = works righteousness/another Gospel/ etc. on another site, so apparently they are out there. Just sayin...
     
  19. T Alan

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    FTR, I do not claim that Wesley was a legalist?? If that's what you mean. The link I left is a good sermon to the contrary of this.
     
    #19 T Alan, Dec 20, 2014
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 20, 2014
  20. salzer mtn

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    Go south young man and you will see certain denominations that go back to the altar once they have made a profession of faith to seek the second working of grace which they call sanctification.
     

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