Holman Christian Standard Bible

No mistake in the KJV! These verses are not same because Luke 2:33 was written by Luke and Luke 2:48 was that Luke wrote WHAT Jesus’ mother SAID to Him. Luke was very careful to write correctly between the written words and the oral words.

 

Thanks Askjo - nice work demonstrating again how the book clears up any issues without reference to Greek/Hebrew. :thumbs:

God bless

 

AVBunyan:1. Depends on how you look at it - with the number of versions out there I believe this has raised even more doubts and confusion - I even had a Islam cleric tell me that the reason they are right is because they have only 1 version (false BTW) while Christians have 100's! Even a Moslem sees the confusion.

Glad you see the Moslem view is false. The Sunnis, Shiites, Sufis, & Hanbalis each have their own Arab version of the Koran. When a Moslem asked me how there could be so many denoms and only one God, I responded that it's for the same reasons there can be four major branches of Islam, while there was only one Mohammed.

Imagine what it would be like if there were but one - basically used to be that way from 1611 to around 1900 or so (except for the Roman versions) and look at what God did with those folks during that time.

Look at what He's doing with several versions now. What the news media fail to adequately report is that thousands in the English-speaking world are coming to Christ every day. The media give much more attention to scandals than they do the mundane & the unspectacular.

Imagine if the modern media had been around in Paul's day:

From the Rome Daily Pantheon:

LOCAL COUPLE FALLS DEAD AR PREACHER'S WORD!

A local couple, Ananias and Sapphira, sold a piece of land for 3 K sesterces, telling a travelling holy man, Paul of Tarsus, that they'd sold it for 2000 sesterces, which they were donating to the local "Christ"ian church. First Ananias told Paul that story, but Paul somehow knew he was lying, & said Ananias would fall dead for lying to Paul's god...AND HE DID! A little later, Sapphira arrived & told the same story...and Paul said the same men who took her hubby's body would take hers out also...AND SHE ALSO FELL DEAD!

The authorities are investigating if any foul play was involved.

A background check of Paul reveals he is a Jew and a Roman citizen, educated as a Pharisee by the Jews. For awhile he was involved in finding & arresting under Jewish law, members of a cult which worships a man they call Christ, supposedly the Jews' Messiah, who was crucified at the request of the Jewish leadership. Apparently, Paul became a turncoat and joined the cult he'd so doggedly tried to destroy.

So far, authorities have been unable to determine the COD of Ananias & Sapphira. Witnesses saw each of them alive and healthy, but then suddenly collapsing, dead, immediately aster paul spoke to each of them. Clearly Paul hadn't raised a finger against either of them.

Investigation is ongoing.
(Written by out Egyptian exchange newsman, Khee-Ponn-Truk-Ken)
____________________________________________________

(Never mind that many were coming to Christ every day at that time.)

2. Robo - I take what I believe by faith as the scriptures demand. How does anyone kno which "source" ones are the real ones anyway?

My point exactly. The KJVOs' claims for the TR, etc. have no more value than anyone else's.

And what kinda faith does one have, to believe the KJVO myth? It's certainly not Biblical, as both substance & evidence are lacking.

Regarding infallible and preeminence - which one in the English describes Christ better - the KJV or the modern versions? Infallible and preeiminence are better regardles of the different definitons of the Greek - folks can see different Greek definition all the time - that is why I stick with the English - the Greek can be shown to be a lot of things depending on the writer and the manuscript.

But a TRUE AND ACCURATE translation is totally dependent upon the Greek. And which version(s) describe Christ better are those which stick to the most common definitions of the Greek. And in the case of 'preeminence', "FIRST" is actually closer to the true Greek definition, and 'infallible' is pushing the envelope a little.

3. Show me where multiple and conflicting bibles is supported by scripture

I have very often used the example of Luke 4:16-21 as compared with Isaiah 61:1-3 and 42:7. Clearly, JESUS READ ALOUD from a version that does NOT match the source of the Book of Isaiah in the KJV's Old Testament. And He called it SCRIPTURE. I can think of no better example of multiple version use, unless one wants to throw out the Ben Chayyim Text.


- I'll go further - show me from scripture where only the originals are inspiried. Show me from scripture where the originals are inspired.

I'm not arguing against inspiration of translations...I'm arguing against limiting GOD to just one version. I thought you knew better than to try to change the subject.


I can take any verions (I guess and show yoou that what Timothy had was inspired and that he most likely did not have the "originals".

Again, you must have me confused with someone else. I have NEVER argued for "originals-only-inspiration". That would make ALL our translations non-valid.

4. I believe you to be sincere here and I thank you for your prayers.

God bless

You're welcome...and thank YOU!

And I still say, and with good reason, that the HCSB is a fine and valid translation.

 

Yes, I agree but...but Ed where do you go to find out what God says and then... how do you know that what He said was actually what He said?

Regarding your "teehee" - I thank you for the history - I took it as you just trying to be "cute" towards me - If I misread you then my apology. But...a smilee :smilewinkgrin: would have come across less "cutesy".

 

Simple logic sez that if it wasn't a mistake in the KJV, it's no mistake in any other version which expresses the VERY SAME FACT in modern language.

 

amen, Brother Robycop3 -- Preach it! :thumbs:

 

Ed Edwards: //There is one authority: God Almighty
and His Holy Spirit within us.

AVBunyan: //Yes, I agree but...but Ed where do you go
to find out what God says and then... how do
you know that what He said was actually what He said?//

I go to my KJV1611 Edtion (on my computer from e-Sword),
I check out my KJV1769 Edition (e-Sword also) with
the Strong's numbers (especially if there is some 'harri'
terms there). I go to my HCSB (Christian Standard Bible
/Holman, 2003/ ). If by then I've not figured out what
it means, I'll pull out my TODAY's PARALLEL BIBLE
(a book) which has parallel:

the KJV1873 Edition
the NIV
the NLT
the NASB

(a four--barrelled cannon/canon )

For plain Jane, run of the mill, typical meaning
(like teaching my Sunday school class) the HCSB is fine.

Here are some of the things I've found out
and documentedrecently. These things are frequently
misunderstood by KJV Readers and are more obvious
in the more Modern Versions (MVs) :

------------------------------------------------
1 Thessalonians 5:22 (HCSB):

Stay away from every form of evil.

1 Thessalonians 5:22 (KJV1769 with Strong's #):

1Th 5:22 Abstain567 from575 all3956
appearance1491 of evil.4190

Strong's //G1491
eidos
i'-dos
From G1492; a view, that is, form (literally or figuratively):
- appearance, fashion, shape, sight.

note, not "looks like"

------------------------------------------------
CONFUSION:

Clean1:

Your misunderstanding of this scripture does NOT support
your contention. So your contention fails.

'confusion' here in the KJV is the opposite of 'peace'
not the opposite of 'understanding' which your conclusion
needs. I call this error by ellipsis (...), the part of the verse
which has been omitted by the ellipsis (...)
shows clearly that 'confusion' is the opposite of 'peace'.
Use the Bible to understand the Bible!

Here is the Strong's description of the Hebrew term
translated in 1611 with the words "the author of confusion"
Note the complete absence of the modern meaning (2006) of
the word 'confusion' which is 'misunderstanding'.
Sorry, someone is trying to put new wine into old skins -
it just doesn't work

Strongs:
G181
akatastasia
ak-at-as-tah-see'-ah
From G182; instability, that is, disorder:
- commotion, confusion, tumult.

------------------------------------------------
CORRUPT

2Co 2:17 (KJV1611 Edition):
For wee are not as many which corrupt the word of God:
but as of sinceritie, but as of God, in the sight of God
speake we in Christ.

Strong's sez:
G2585
kap-ale-yoo'-o
From /greek alphabet not available]
(a huckster); to retail, that is, (by implication)
to adulterate (figuratively): - corrupt.

As usual, Strong's lists what the KJVs use, not what makes the
most sense. But why do the KJVs use 'corrupt'. Here is
a text that preceeds the KJVs:

2Co 2:17 (Geneva Bible, 1587):
For wee are not as many, which make marchandise of the woorde of God:
but as of sinceritie, but as of God in ye sight of God
speake we in Christ.

------------------------------------------------
FUNNIEST
Here is the funniest KJV boo-boo of all:

2 Kings 19:35 (KJV1769):
And it came to pass that night, that the angel of the LORD went out,
and smote in the camp of the Assyrians
an hundred fourscore and five thousand:
and when they1 arose early in the morning,
behold, they2 were all dead corpses.

Of course, it is only funny if you
resolve the first "they1" as "the Assyrians"
and the second "they2" as "the Assyrians"
so it reads:

2 Kings 19:35 (KJV1769):
And it came to pass that night, that the angel of the LORD went out,
and smote in the camp of the Assyrians
an hundred fourscore and five thousand:
and when the Assyrians arose early in the morning,
behold, the Assyrians were all dead corpses.

Compare to the clarity of the HCSB = The Holman Christian Standard Bible
2 Kings 19:35 (HCSB):

That night the angel of the Lord went out
and struck down 185,000 in the camp of the Assyrians.
When the people got up the [next] morning-there
were all the dead bodies!


But I love to praise Jesus in 17th Century talk:
:wavey: Praise Iesus, the Christ


------------------------------------------------
THE PENNY

Rev 6:5-6 (KJV1611 Edition): And when hee had opened the third seale,
I heard the third beast say, Come and see. And I beheld,
and loe, a blacke horse: and hee that sate on him
had a paire of balances in his hand.
6 And I heard a voice in the midst of the foure beastes say,
A measure of wheate for a penie,
and three measures of barley for a penie,
and see thou hurt not the oyle and the wine.

In 1611 the penny (a small British copper coin) was a day's wages.
In 96AD, when the Greek was written, the 'denarion'
was a day's wages (a small Greek copper coin).

So this scripture is predicting a time of famine.
You can barely feed your family (a day's wages for a day's food)
OR you can barely feed your live stock (a day's wages for
the barley for the animals). So you have to choose between
feeding your family now or in the futrue.
Forget anything more than the basics, like oil or wine

(BTW, 'beast' here is a good being so really should read
'living being'.)

------------------------------------------------
STRAIN AT:

Mat 23:24 (KJV1769 Edition with Strong's numbers):
Ye blind5185 guides,3595 which strain1368 at a gnat,2971
and1161 swallow2666 a camel.2574

Strong's says of the G1368 Entry:

"to strain out. (“strain at” is probably by misprint.)"

I.E. Strong's notes that 'strain at' is an error
and the correct translation is 'strain out'.

The NIV is right:
New International Version
Matthew 23:24 (NIV):
You blind guides! You strain out
a gnat but swallow a camel.

------------------------------------------------
TIME & ETERNITY

Time is a finite sub-set of the infinite set: eternity.
So the old uneducated/redneck preacher that talks
about when time ends and eternity begins is 'full of it'.
Eternity by nature has no beginning and no end. God
is the creator of Eternity and exists outside Eternity as
well inside Eternity.

BTW, it is worse than I describe, a common misunderstanding
of the King James Version (KJV) leads to the 'when time ends
and eternity begins' doctrinal error.

Ad Time (eternity) H5703 - used once
Aion Time (age) G165
Aionios Time (eternal) G166
Chronos Time (time) G5550
Eis aion aion Time (forever and ever) G1519, G165, G165
Kairos Time (time ) G2540
Hemera Time (day) G2250
Hora Time (hour) G2610

Isa 57:15 (KJV1611 Edition):
For thus saith the High and loftie One that inhabiteth eternitie,
whose Name is Holy; I dwell in the high and holy place:
with him also that is of a contrite and humble spirit,
to reuiue the spirit of the humble,
and to reuiue the heart of the contrite ones.

On 15 Aug 2006 I did a Google search on "time ends and eternity begins"
getting 44 'hits'. So this is a used (though non-biblical and
non-sense) concept.

--------------------------------------

 

Askjo, you're just blind to the truth, that's all. All you are doing is repeating the same old tired and disproven KJVO double-speak and double standard. This double-speak and double standard is quite common among extremist supporters of the KJVO myth like yourself.

Let's look at another verse where Mary and Joseph are called Jesus' parents, indicating mother and father.

And also in this later KJV revision:

To call another Bible version "in error" for using the same type of language and thought as the KJV is a double standard, Askjo. It is also blasphemy against the word of God. You really need to stop blaspheming God's word, Askjo. You claim to love the word, yet you and many other extremist supporters of the KJVO myth continually blaspheme the word of God in any version but the KJV by belittling it.

AVBunyan, you apparently support Askjo in the spread of the KJVO myth. Why would one not refer back to the Greek or Hebrew to see what the Bible really says? Apparently you are afraid the original languages will show at various points where the KJV is in error. After all, the KJV is a good translation of the word of God, but the KJV is not perfect. Are you another extremist supporter of the KJVO myth like Askjo and several others who have been on BaptistBoard as well? I pity you in that you have fallen for the errors and misrepresentations that form the basis of the KJVO myth. I continually pray that God will intervene and show you that the KJVO myth is wrong and that is is not of God in the least. The KJVO myth is man-made and is thus deep in error. There is absolutely no Scripture that supports the KJVO myth unless you take it out of context and twist its true meaning.

Yes, the HCSB is a good translation, and the HCSB is the word of God despite what some extremists would have us believe.

 

Do you normally get your theology from Islamic clerics?

 

And the Alexandrian Cult says: AMEN!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

Please - You completely missed the point - point was even lost people know that multiple authorities is confusion and an issue - a lost man can see it even the majority of modern Christianity cannot or will not

 

Once again we cannot keep on topic, which believe it or not was the HCSB.

Since are well past the optional 5 page limit - thread closed.