Holman Christian Standard Translation

Discussion in '2005 Archive' started by Journeyman1, Mar 4, 2005.

  1. Journeyman1

    Journeyman1
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    Does anyone have any experience and/or thoughts with this translation? I need a new bible and I am trying to consider some of the newer translations. What do you recommend?

    http://www.broadmanholman.com/hcsb.ASP


    jman
     
  2. Spoudazo

    Spoudazo
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    Haven't used it, but heard about it being produced several years ago by none other than Dr.Waite [​IMG] [​IMG]

    I personally use the KJV, NASB, and ESV [​IMG] NASB is my favorite to study out of the ones listed as I enjoy studies in the Greek NT, ESV for just reading through different parts of the Bible, and KJV when witnessing, quoting, etc. [​IMG]
     
  3. Keith M

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    Hi, Journeyman1...

    I have the HCSB and I have been pleased with it. As for literalness, I think it is somewhere between the KJV and the NIV, but probably closer to the NIV. I personally would recommend the HCSB over the NIV, but that's just my own opinion...
     
  4. BruceB

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    I have been reading the HCSB through since January. I have compared it to my copies of the NASB and NKJV and I have decided I like the HCSB better for reading. How it compares in textural accuracy I will have to defer to the experts, but on a chart I copied off of this website a few months ago the HCSB was placed between the NKJV and the NRSV on the "word for word" side of the scale. The NIV was about center on the scale while the Message and the NLT where on the opposite side (thought for thought side). The HCSB reads very nicely, I recommend adding a copy to your library of Bible translations. Bruce
     
  5. Ed Edwards

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    A search in this forum on "Holman" shows these topics:

    http://www.baptistboard.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php/topic/4/2224.html#000000

    http://www.baptistboard.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi/topic/4/2081.html?

    http://www.baptistboard.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi/topic/4/2081.html?

    http://www.baptistboard.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi/topic/4/1967.html?

    A search in this forum on "HCSB" in the title shows 9
    topic the latest of which is:

    http://www.baptistboard.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php/topic/4/2163.html#000000

    I teach my Sunday School Class from The Bible Study series
    which has used the HCSB for about a year before there
    was an HCSB to buy.
     
  6. Phillip

    Phillip
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    You are correct. Every single chart that I have seen rates it on the literal side of the word-for-word and dynamic charts. It falls somewhere just between the NASB and the ESV. With the NASB being the most literal. All three appear to be within about 25% of full literal compared to the NIV on the far side of the dynamic.
     
  7. Phillip

    Phillip
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    How come ours still has the KJV and NIV comparison. Don't we buy from the same place? :confused:
     
  8. Ed Edwards

    Ed Edwards
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  9. Journeyman1

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    Many thanks to each of you for your insight.


    jman
     
  10. Rookiepastor

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    Journeyman

    I use the HCSB almost exclusively now. I still do private and study reading with the NASB and ESV but I read from the HCSB in the pulpit and when someone is baptized at our church, they are presented with a HCSB.

    God Bless
     
  11. Craigbythesea

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    I find the HCSB to be very unsatisfactory for any purpose whatsoever. There are several very good translations of the Bible available to choose from in English—so why bother with a distinctly inferior translation like the HCSB?

    [​IMG]
     
  12. NaasPreacher (C4K)

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    On what basis do you amke the charge of the inferiority of the HCSB?
     
  13. Ed Edwards

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    Oh, the HCSB is superior to the KJV1769.
    'Hope' appears in 121 verses of the KJV1769.
    'Hope' appears in 159 verses of the HCSB.
    Therefore the HCSB has more 'hope' than does
    the KJV1769 [​IMG]
     
  14. TC

    TC
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    In the past, he claimed it was because of translator bias. But when he was pressed for exact examples, he refused to answer. It will be interesting to see if you get an answer.
     
  15. Phillip

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    The ONLY place that I have seen someone claim translator bias and actually point to a verse is one that "I" actually pointed out.

    "Tongues" is translated to "languages" in the HCSB. Bottom line, today's English, "language" is the better translation of "tongues".

    Even a Pentecostal will admit this (though they don't like to) because it STILL says "unknown tongues". We Baptists know what this means, but this cannot be made into a claim that it imparts bias to the translation.

    In fact, it is probably one of the few new English translations with the guts to use the actual modern English words.

    Face it, how many kids in school say "I'm goin' to my Spanish Tongues class." :rolleyes:
     
  16. TC

    TC
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    Now, I remember that one example. Thanks for the correction.
     
  17. Craigbythesea

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    I certainly do wish that Christians would learn to tell the truth. I did post examples and I explained in great detail why the HCSB translation was severely inadequate. In the first instance I was accused of being biased against the SBC, which is totally false. In the second instance no one in the tread knew enough about the Greek language, linguistics, or New Testament theology to understand my post. No one asked for further examples and I did not bother to post any.

    Many hundreds of examples of serious problems in the KJV have been posted over and over again on this message board, but a number of members still prefer the KJV over several translations that are without question much more accurate; and there are several members who not only continue to favor the KJV in spite of the facts, but continue to believe that he KJV is absolutely perfect, the very Word of God perfectly translated into English, so perfectly in fact, that it is superior to the texts from which it was translated. Therefore I have found it to be pointless to go into detail regarding the problems of any given translation. Any intelligent reader can quickly enough compare the HCSB to the NASB, the ESV, or the NKJV and readily see for themselves that the HCSB is distinctly inferior.

    A few problems with the HCSB, however, are not so readily apparent, and shall briefly describe another one of them (I already discussed its theological bias). The HCSB contains not only numerous examples of novel translations, but it is translated based upon a novel philosophy of Bible translation. The KJV, RV, ASV, RSV, NASB, ESV and some other translations were translated in accordance with the Formal Equivalence philosophy of Bible translation. The NIV, NAB (first edition only), CEV, GNT and some other translations were translated in accordance with the Dynamic Equivalence philosophy of Bible translation. The HCSB, however, was translated in accordance with the Optimal Equivalence philosophy of Bible translation, and, therefore, language structure is not preserved when it is thought that doing so would impair the readability. Where the NASB makes every effort to consistently translate verb tenses, the Optimal Equivalence philosophy of Bible translation allows the HCSB to completely omit some verbs and replace them with nouns or other parts of speech. The result is a text that is easier to understand, but it is the HCSB that the reader is understanding rather than the concepts in the original language. Sometimes they include a note alerting the reader to the fact that they have done this and provide the literal translation in the margin, but this practice in not uniformly carried out.

    Most of my neighbors could drive a new Mercedes Benz, or even a Ferrari or a Rolls Royce (and a few of them do), but most of them drive a Ford or Chevy, or a Nissan or a Toyota. The idea of spending a small fortune on a package of nuts and bolts doesn’t appeal to many them, and I can understand that (I drive a Ford). What I can NOT understand, however, is why anyone would want to compromise on the translation of the Bible that they read. I believe that the Bible is God’s word for us today, and since the very best translations don’t cost any more that the worst of them (except for the NWT—a JW will give one to you for free if you ask him for it), why settle for a Ford or a Chevy when you can drive a Rolls Royce for the same price?

    [​IMG]
     
  18. Craigbythesea

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    Phillip wrote,

    Phillip,

    As you have pointed out in this example, the English words "tongues" and "languages" are not always synonyms. In the view of the vast majority of New Testament scholars and translators of the New Testament, "languages" does not convey the same thought as "tongues" in many of its uses in the New Testament. I am not the one who is being weird here; all of you can see this for yourself simply by looking at other translations of the New Testament and by checking out commentaries on Acts and 1 Corinthians, of which hundreds have been published.

    -- King James
    1 Corinthians 12:10 To another the working of miracles; to another prophecy; to another discerning of spirits; to another divers kinds of tongues; to another the interpretation of tongues:

    -- New King James
    1 Corinthians 12:10 to another the working of miracles, to another prophecy, to another discerning of spirits, to another different kinds of tongues, to another the interpretation of tongues.

    -- American Standard
    1 Corinthians 12:10 and to another workings of miracles; and to another prophecy; and to another discernings of spirits; to another divers kinds of tongues; and to another the interpretation of tongues:

    -- Revised Standard
    1 Corinthians 12:10 to another the working of miracles, to another prophecy, to another the ability to distinguish between spirits, to another various kinds of tongues, to another the interpretation of tongues.

    -- New American Standard
    1 Corinthians 12:10 and to another the effecting of miracles, and to another prophecy, and to another the distinguishing of spirits, to another {various} kinds of tongues, and to another the interpretation of tongues.

    -- New Jerusalem with Apocrypha
    1 Corinthians 12:10 to another, the working of miracles; to another, prophecy; to another, the power of distinguishing spirits; to one, the gift of different tongues and to another, the interpretation of tongues.

    -- New American with Apocrypha
    1 Corinthians 12:10 to another mighty deeds; to another prophecy; to another discernment of spirits; to another varieties of tongues; to another interpretation of tongues.

    -- New Revised Standard with Apocrypha
    1 Corinthians 12:10 to another the working of miracles, to another prophecy, to another the discernment of spirits, to another various kinds of tongues, to another the interpretation of tongues.

    -- Young's Bible
    1 Corinthians 12:10 and to another in-workings of mighty deeds; and to another prophecy; and to another discernings of spirits; and to another [divers] kinds of tongues; and to another interpretation of tongues:

    -- Darby's Bible
    1 Corinthians 12:10 and to another operations of miracles; and to another prophecy; and to another discerning of spirits; and to a different one kinds of tongues; and to another interpretation of tongues.

    -- Weymouth's New Testament
    1 Corinthians 12:10 to another the exercise of miraculous powers; to another the gift of prophecy; to another the power of discriminating between prophetic utterances; to another varieties of the gift of 'tongues;' to another the interpretation of tongues.

    -- International Standard Version
    1 Corinthians 12:10 to another miraculous results; to another prophecy; to another the ability to distinguish between spirits; to another various kinds of tongues; and to another the interpretation of tongues.

    -- William's NewTestament
    1 Corinthians 12:10 to another, power for working wonders; to another, prophetic insight; to another, the power to discriminate between the true Spirit and false spirits; to another, various ecstatic utterances; and to another, the power to explain them.

    -- Montgomery New Testament
    1 Corinthians 12:10 to another the powers which work miracles, to another prophecy, to another the discernment of spirits; to another varieties of tongues, to another the interpretation of tongues.

    (BBE) And to another the power of working wonders; and to another the prophet's word; and to another the power of testing spirits; to another different sorts of tongues; and to another the power of making clear the sense of the tongues:

    (Bishops) To another, power to do miracles, to another, prophesie, to another [iudgement] to discerne spirites, to another, diuers kyndes of tongues, to another, the interpretation of tongues.

    (DRB) To another the working of miracles: to another, prophecy: to another, the discerning of spirits: to another, diverse kinds of tongues: to another, interpretation of speeches.

    (EMTV) to another the working of miracles, and to another prophecy, and to another discerning of spirits, and to another different kinds of tongues, and to another interpretation of tongues.

    (ESV) to another the working of miracles, to another prophecy, to another the ability to distinguish between spirits, to another various kinds of tongues, to another the interpretation of tongues.

    (GB) And to another the operations of great workes: and to another, prophecie: and to another, the discerning of spirits: and to another, diuersities of tongues: and to another, the interpretation of tongues.

    (Geneva) And to another the operations of great workes: and to another, prophecie: and to another, the discerning of spirits: and to another, diuersities of tongues: and to another, the interpretation of tongues.

    (GNB) The Spirit gives one person the power to work miracles; to another, the gift of speaking God's message; and to yet another, the ability to tell the difference between gifts that come from the Spirit and those that do not. To one person he gives the ability to speak in strange tongues, and to another he gives the ability to explain what is said.

    (HCSB) to another, the performing of miracles, to another, prophecy, to another, distinguishing between spirits, to another, different kinds of languages, to another, interpretation of languages.

    (ISV) to another miraculous results; to another prophecy; to another the ability to distinguish between spirits; to another various kinds of tongues; and to another the interpretation of tongues.

    (KJV-1611) To another the working of miracles, to another prophecie, to another discerning of spirits, to another diuers kindes of tongues, to another the interpretation of tongues.

    (MKJV) and to another workings of powers, to another prophecy; and to another discerning of spirits; and to another kinds of tongues; and to another the interpretation of tongues.

    (MSG) miraculous acts proclamation distinguishing between spirits tongues interpretation of tongues.

    (Murdock) and to another, miracles: and to another, prophecy: and to another, the discerning of spirits: and to another, [divers] kinds of tongues: and to another, the interpretation of tongues.

    (WNT) to another the exercise of miraculous powers; to another the gift of prophecy; to another the power of discriminating between prophetic utterances; to another varieties of the gift of 'tongues;' to another the interpretation of tongues.

    (YLT) and to another in-workings of mighty deeds; and to another prophecy; and to another discernings of spirits; and to another divers kinds of tongues; and to another interpretation of tongues:

    [​IMG]
     
  19. TC

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    No, you did not give examples. The opening post gave the example of languages versus tongues and what you gave was an appeal to tradition. Later in that thread, you gave Romans 1:1 where the HCSB says set aside instead of set apart or seperated. That means that you only gave one example yourself. Then you refuse to give any other examples because we just are not as high or as good of a scholar as you claim to be. So, that releases you from giving the evidence. Hate to break it to you, but you are not the end all be all scholar you think you are. There are many good resources availiable today so that we can check out what you say for ourselves. We just do not have to take your word for it because you claim to know more than the rest of us.
     
  20. Phillip

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    Craig, Your lengthy waste of data-space on the bulletin board server showing every past translation has used tongues means very little.

    I also urge you to be VERY careful calling me a "liar" on this board.

    You have posted a LONG diatribe about why you think the HCSB is a bad translation based on your opinion of the translation method. Whether or not this method is true, provide verse and scripture that does not match the Greek behind it.

    Tongues simply means languages. PERIOD.

    You are a smart person and you know better than that.

    I am NOT arguing whether unknown languages relate to Pentecostal stuff, I am arguing Greek to English translation.
     

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