"Holy" Sunrise service?

Discussion in '2004 Archive' started by wopik, Apr 2, 2004.

  1. wopik

    wopik
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    "Holy" Sunrise service or Pagan left-over ---

    Ezekiel (Ez.8:14-16, kjv) is brought into the LORD's House and sees women weeping for the god Tammuz(*).
    He sees 25 men with "their faces toward the EAST; and they worshipped the sun toward the EAST". Did this custom get ABSORBED into "Christianity" ?

    When is the SUN in the EAST? When do WE stand around to WATCH THE SUN RISE, WITH OUR FACES TOWARD THE EAST - once a year? Perhaps during our Ishtar celebration?

    The LORD called this practice an ABOMINATION! "Is this a light thing to the house of Judah that they commit the abominations which they commit here?" (Ez. 8:17).

    (*)The center margin in my old kjv Bible says: "In a lewd and idolatrous manner lamenting the death of Tammuz or Adonis, suppposed also to be Baal-peor, Numbers 25:3"
     
  2. GODzThunder

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    This is a joke right? Are you really saying that because we meet at sunrise on Easter to do a devotional that we are in essence practicing idolatry?????

    First, you cannot be practicing idolatry when you are focusing your worship solely upon the Lord Jesus Christ

    Second, we meet on that morning because that was when the women went to Christ's tomb and first found it empty, we are remembering the empty tomb and the resurrection of the Lord as well as his promise that we too shall join in resurrection!!! We face the East because the Bible tells us to keep our eyes on the eastern sky, which is a reference to the return of Christ!

    This is like saying we are practicing idolatry because we went to Church when Sunday fell on oct 31 (halloween). The two have nothing in commmon and neither does you references
     
  3. wopik

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    ISHTAR, Ancient Babylonian goddess of sexual love and fertility. Here she is depicted on this stone tablet as "The Queen of the Rising Sun" (one of her other titles).
    http://www.sabbatarian.com/Paganism/Ishtar.html


    The Easter Sunrise Service was derived from the ancient Pagan rite where sun worshippers gathered at dawn with their faces facing the rising sun to worship the sun god Baal and his consort the Easter goddess.

    "How did the heathen worship their gods? Even so will I do likewise". And what is God's response? "You shall not do so to the Lord your God... What things soever I command you, observe to do it: you shall not add thereto, nor diminish from it" (Deuteronomy 12:29-32).

    http://www.cornerstone1.org/easter.htm
     
  4. brobobby

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  5. brobobby

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    I have to totally agree with Godzthunder. I think when we focus on Jesus that is what really matters and God looks on the heart. May I say that prayer circles were also pagan, so are we going to quit praying. I think not, let us quit looking for the devil and look for Jesus.
     
  6. Watchman

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    While I am not thrilled about the name Easter, I must agree with GODzThunder here.
    Just because some pagan group, at one time, did something we should have a knee-jerk reaction and avoid everything that may seem to be similar to it.
     
  7. USN2Pulpit

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    If we reacted that way, we'd have to avoid coming to church meetings. After all, don't the Masons and Order of the Eastern Star meet in a building that looks like a church?
     
  8. Dr. Bob

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    It IS good, however, to understand the syncretism of pagan religious practices with "christianity" and how these began. May not have any bearing on the Easter Sunrise Service in your church, but it is historically accurate.

    BTW, we have an easter sunrise breakfast at 9:30 am, then worship at 11.

    Hot cross buns? "And when we burned incense to the queen of heaven, and poured out drink offerings unto her, did we make her cakes to worship her, and pour out drink offerings unto her, without our men?" Jeremiah 44:17-19 speak of worship of Tamuz (Ishtar) with them, but that doesn't stop me from enjoying 3 or 4 on Easter!!
     
  9. wopik

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    I have to totally agree with Godzthunder. I think when we focus on Jesus that is what really matters and God looks on the heart.

    It's apparent Jesus does want us to focus on Him, but not with pagan holidays:

    "How did the heathen worship their gods? Even so will I do likewise". And what is God's response? "You shall not do so to the Lord your God... What things soever I command you, observe to do it: you shall not add thereto, nor diminish from it" (Deuteronomy 12:29-32).
     
  10. wopik

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    "How did the heathen worship their gods? Even so will I do likewise". And what is God's response? "You shall not do so to the Lord your God: for every abomination to the LORD, which the LORD hates, have they done unto their gods..." (Deut. 12:29-32).


    "Easter (Ishtar) sunrise services" are an abomination to the LORD:

    "Ezekiel (Ez.8:14-16, kjv) is brought into the LORD's House and sees women weeping for the god Tammuz....
    and men with "their faces toward the EAST; and they worshipped the sun toward the EAST".

    "Then the LORD said to me, 'Is this a light thing to the house of Judah that they commit the abominations which they commit here?' " (Ez. 8:17).
     
  11. Kiffin

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    Hmmm... :eek: :confused: I thought part of the duty of the Church was to redeem the time. Easter as we celebrate it is not a pagan holiday. Even things such as Prayer circles (which brobobby mentioned) has it origins in Druid worship but I do not believe the Church is practicing Wicca when we pray to the Holy Trinity [​IMG] We redeemed that custom, just like we redeemed what was once a pagan holiday. Sunrise services puts us in the tradition of Mary Magdalene who ran to the Empty Tomb to meet Jesus early that first Easter morning. No one on Easter Sunday is going to worship Ishtar :rolleyes: Enjoy your Easter and celebrate the Resurrection instead of looking for demons behind every tree.
     
  12. Kiffin

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    [​IMG] [​IMG]
     
  13. wopik

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    Dr. Griffin --

    It IS good, however, to understand the syncretism of pagan religious practices with "christianity".....

    why is it good?
     
  14. wopik

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    Watchman --

    Just because some pagan group, at one time, did something we should have a knee-jerk reaction....

    The LORD doesn't like pagan sunrise cults. Did not the LORD have a "knee-jerk reaction" to this "sunrise practice"? HE calls it an abomination" (Ez. 8:17).


    ----------------------------------------------
    the Truth shall make you free - John 8:32
     
  15. Watchman

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    wopik--
    We worship the Lord Jesus Christ. He arose early on the first day of the week. Our love, adoration, and thankfullness is directed to Him, not some pagan god.
    You quoted John 8:32, "the truth shall make you free" quite true, to be free is not to be in bondage. Not in bondage to legalism and being overly concerned about some practices that some pagans at one time may have commited.
    By the way, the days of the week: SUNday, MONday,
    are not biblical terms, they are pagan terms. Do you have a "knee-jerk" reaction and refuse to call them that?
    The truth shall make you free; do not try to put us in bondage.
     
  16. wopik

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    IMO, obeying God is not "bondage".

    My definition of a Judaizer is not one who follows and is obedient to God’s commandments, but one who trusts in himself (his own works, etc.) for salvation, rather than the grace of God.
     
  17. MalkyEL

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    Something to consider:

    Mat 28:1 In the end 1161 3796 of the sabbath 4521, as it began to dawn 2020 toward 1519 the first 3391 [day] of the week 4521, came 2064 Mary 3137 Magdalene 3094 and 2532 the other 243 Mary 3137 to see 2334 the sepulchre 5028.

    Mar 16:2 And 2532 very 3029 early in the morning 4404 the first 3391 [day] of the week 4521, they came 2064 unto 1909 the sepulchre 3419 at the rising 393 of the sun 2246.

    Luk 24:1 Now 1161 upon the first 3391 [day] of the week 4521, very early in the morning 3722 901, they came 2064 unto 1909 the sepulchre 3418, bringing 5342 the spices 759 which 3739

    Jhn 20:1 1161 The first 3391 [day] of the week 4521 cometh 2064 Mary 3137 Magdalene 3094 early 4404, when it was 5607 yet 2089 dark 4653, unto 1519 the sepulchre 3419, and 2532 seeth 991 the stone 3037 taken away 142 from 1537 the sepulchre 3419.

    Strong's # 4521 - Sabbaton [Sabbath]

    1) the seventh day of each week which was a sacred festival on which the Israelites were required to abstain from all work

    a) the institution of the sabbath, the law for keeping holy every seventh day of the week

    b) a single sabbath, sabbath day

    The Greek uses this word in the plural, making it Sabbaths. During Passover week, the Jews celebrated two feasts - Passover and the Feast of Unleavened Bread. Passover is one day in length. The Feast of Unleavened Bread is 7 days long with a Holy Day or Sabbath as the first day and another one on the last day of that week.

    Today, it is commonly known as Passover week, but is still considered two separate Feasts. Every year this week begins and ends on a different day of the week depending on the cycle of the new moon - which is why Easter and Passover week occur at the same time like this year. Quite often they overlap and intersect with each other.

    The Passover week that Jesus was crucified contained two Sabbaths and therefore the Scripts mention this in plural. More than likely that "other" Sabbath was on Friday, making a Fri crucifixion impossible.

    Also, because of the same Greek word as used in all 4 Gospels, the KJV has not rendered the word correctly - in other words, Jesus' Resurrection did not occur on the first day of the week, or Sunday, as we know it, but rather on Saturday, or the Sabbath. Here is a literal translation correctly rendering the Greek. You can see the contridicion with the KJV - probably the translation error came without knowledge of the function of the Feasts as were laid out by God to Isra'el, and because of the confusion as to why the Greek would be rendered in the plural.

    Matthew 28
    1 ¶ But late in the sabbaths, at the dawning into the first of the sabbaths, Mary the Magdalene and the other Mary came to gaze upon the grave.

    Luke 24
    1 ¶ And the first of the sabbaths, while still very early, they came on the tomb, carrying spices which they prepared; and some were with them.

    John 20
    1 ¶ But on the first of the sabbaths, Mary Magdalene came early to the tomb, darkness yet being on it. And she saw the stone had been removed from the tomb.

    One further note. In approximately 325 AD, Constantine, Ruler of the known world at that time, blended pagan practices with Christianity to make a "one world religion" - more commonly known as a universal religion, Roman Catholicism. He destroyed everything Hebraic and persecuted all those who held to anything Jewish including the celebrating of Shabbat - the Saturday worship day.
    He changed the day to Sunday, which is the pagan day of worship to its deities. And so the course of history was changed. [this information can easily be verified in any encyclopedia]

    Shalom, Nancy
     
  18. Kiffin

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    That is a complete myth. There was no Roman Catholic Church in Constantine's day. Actually the Church of Alexandria Egypt may have had as much pull as the Church of Rome as well as other Churches had much pull. There was no centralized Roman Church authority in the 4th century. All it takes is a casual reading of the early Church Fathers before Constantine was to show that Sunday Worship was firmly entrenched.

    Ignatius of Antioch around AD 110
    Those who lived according to the old order of things have come to a new hope, no longer keeping the Sabbath, but the Lord's Day, in which our life is blessed by him and by his death.

    Justin Martyr stated around AD 150
    We all gather on the day of the sun, for it is the first day [after the Jewish Sabbath, but also the first day] when God, separating matter from


    Constantine changed nothing, he just declared it legal. Churches hads been celebrating the Lord's day for centuries. By the 4th century, Christianity had long left it's Hebrew roots because most Christians were not Jewish. The Catholic Church of the Church Fathers is not synomous with the Roman Catholic Church and trivializes Church history to say it was Roman Catholicism. There were a few spilinter groups such as the Novatian churches (But not over doctrine) and some heretical groups but overall Christianity was undivided for centuries until the Eastern Churches split with the West in the 11th century, The Waldenses in the 12th, and the Protestant Reformation in the 1500's.
     
  19. wopik

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    MalkyEL and Kiffin and others -

    on another aspect of Sabbaths:

    Did God command His people to keep His feasts, only to later decide to "do away" with them? Did Christ's atoning death "do away" with the annual Sabbaths? Did Christ come to ABOLISH these so-called "Jewish" Feasts?

    If so, then WHY will He FORCE all nations to keep the Feast of Tabernacles in the millennium? (Zechariah 14: 16-19).


    The Bible say Christ's FIRST GREAT EDICT after He sets up His world-ruling kingdom will be His command to all nations to come to His new world headquarters in Jerusalem to KEEP THE FEAST OF TABERNACLES? Why would Christ issue such a command if all the annual holy days of God are merely "Jewish," and are "done away"?
     
  20. wopik

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    Eusebius records a letter of Polycrates (circa 280's AD) written to Pope Victor in regards to the Paschal festival:

    "For in Asia great luminaries sleep[are dead] who shall rise again on the day of the Lord's advent, when He is coming with glory from heaven and shall search out all His saints -- such as Philip, one of the twelve apostles, who sleeps[is dead] in Hierapolis with two of his daughters, who remained unmarried to the end of their days......Again there is John, who leant back on the Lord's breast.....he too sleeps[is dead] in Ephesus. Then in Smyrna there is Polycarp, bishop and martyr; and Thraseas....who also sleeps [is dead] in Smyrna.

    "Need I mention Sagaris, bishop and martyr, who sleeps[is dead] in Laodicea, or blessed Papirius, or Melito the eunuch, who lived entirely in the Holy Spirit, and who lies in Sardis waiting for the visitation from heaven when he shall rise from the dead?

    "All of these kept the fourteenth day of the month as the beginning of the Paschal festival........Last of all I too, Polycrates, the least of you all, act according to the traditon of my family, some members of which I actually followed; for seven of them were bishops and I am the eighth, and my family have always kept the day when the people put away the leaven."
    (Eusebius, The History of the Church from Christ to Constantine, [23.1 - 24.8] ).
     

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