homosexuality is sinful?

Discussion in '2003 Archive' started by C.S. Murphy, Apr 25, 2003.

  1. C.S. Murphy

    C.S. Murphy
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    I know this question has been asked in other forums but not here. In my view homosexuality is sinful no matter the circumstances, does anyone dissagree? [​IMG]
    Murph
     
  2. I Am Blessed 24

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    Not me Murph! I agree completely. There is no way anyone can sanction homosexuality scripturally. It has always been and always will be an abomination. And I don't think it much matters whether you are lost or 'saved'. It is still an inordinate, unnatural, abomination!

    Blessings,
    Sue
     
  3. Istherenotacause

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    Sodomy, not homsexuality! Homosexuality is the watewred down word for sin, calling it a curable disease by man's ability. The only cure for sodomy is the Blood of Christ, anyone who says they're a sodomite and saved are deceived, making God a liar, (which God cannot lie).

    Call it what it is, sodomy. Call them Sodomites, that's what they are! Calling them homosexuals just sympathizes their cause; their cause is to convert as many as they can before they die out in their disgusting sin!
     
  4. Johnv

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    It's my opinion that copulation between two people of the same gender is a sin, yes. It doesn't matter if one is homosexual or heterosexual. Those words are general labels that aren't necessarily indicative of a person's sexual activity.

    But to expound, I think the Christian community makes much ado about homosexual behavior all the while overlooking the sinful behavior that is much more prevalent in our pews.

    BTW, Istherenotacause, sodomy in and of itself is not a sin. Married men and women often engage in sodomy in the marriage bed, as part of a Godly sexual expression between husband and wife.
     
  5. Baptist Bible Believer

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    Brethren, I believe that GOD has adequately answered to the deviants and sodomites.

    For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature: And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompense of their error which was meet. (Romans 1:26, 27)

    I can not dogmatically state that AIDS is that recompense of their error which was meet - it sure applies though.

    And yes, heterosexual immorality in GOD's eyes is the same as sodomy, but then, so is telling little white lies.
     
  6. Dr. Bob

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    "Sodomy" (AV1611 word) is a sin. Call it by any other name, such as "Homosexual" and it does not change a thing. It is 100% ever and always sin. God said that, not Bob.

    Just because someone does not use the KJV word does not mean they are "watering down" the issue. They are simply using just as condemning words that are modern.
     
  7. latterrain77

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    Yes, as is all sexual activity outside of marriage sin (Lev. 20: 10- 16) including heterosexual activity. The marriage bed ONLY is undefiled and honorable (Heb. 13: 4).

    On the other hand, Modernistic ploys that attempt to exploit the holiness of the marriage union are wrong and un-Biblical. For example, the drive by some in the church to pursue so-called "same sex" marriages and, the common acceptance and practice of heterosexual remarriage after divorce (adultery) are both wrong and Un-Biblical. Yet all too often, the same Pastor who condemns the homosexual is only too delighted to preside over the wedding ceremony of so many "divorced and remarried" heterosexual brothers and sisters in the church. Why? (Mark 10: 11-12).

    Consider that abortion (baby killing) is among the most offensive sins of all. Abortion is always a product of heterosexual sex (often adulterously so). If the church were as vocal against sinful heterosexual sex as it is about homosexuality, then there would be FAR fewer abortions in the world (think about it).

    We should avoid defining human beings by their sexuality. We should define them by our LOVE toward them rather than wrath (Matt 5: 43-44). The command to "Go ye into the world" did not end by saying; "but avoid the homosexuals" (Mark 16: 15). Notice what the verse says: preach to EVERY CREATURE (all).

    The Apostle Paul associated with homosexuals (1 Cor. 6: 9-11, especially v9). According to the inerrant text, these homosexuals were SAVED (v11). The text says "such WERE some of you" (v11; washed, sanctified, justified). They became saved because some forward thinking Christians of that day REACHED OUT TO THEM and preached the Gospel to them! Sinners are reached by the "hearing" of the word (Romans 10:17). If the Corinthian era preachers had taken the position about homosexuals that many in the church do today, then those homosexual folks of 1 Cor. 6: 9-11 would NOT have become saved and the Bible would be missing a few verses - GOD FORBID (Rev. 22: 19). Heaven would be missing a few believers too!

    Using the word "sodomite" to define homosexuality is unprofitable and problematic. The sins of Sodom ARE defined in the inerrant Bible. NONE of those sins are said to be homosexuality (Eze. 16:49). Rather, the sin of Sodom is said to include those sins that define the personalities of MANY "respected" members of society, including some in the church. In fact, the Bible is clear that sins within the church are GREATER than the sin of Sodom (Lamentations 4: 6, Eze. 16: 48). Accordingly, when we hurl around the word "sodomite" we run the risk that those words will boomerang right back in our face.

    How can Aids be GOD's wrath against homosexuals when Lesbians are a group LEAST affected by Aids?

    Why is homosexuality so often singled out for "abomination," while the many other abominations of the Bible are not held to the same degree of scrutiny? The Bible does make reference to particular abominations which it says are specifically "hated" by GOD. A list of these abominations can be found in Proverbs 6: 16-19. That list of "abominations" does NOT include homosexuality. However, the list DOES include conduct that is practiced routinely by many in the world and, sadly by many brothers and sisters in the chuch too. Read them and weep.

    Since GOD "hates" the abominations listed in Proverbs 6: 16-19, I would like to know if we as Christians are to "hate" the Proverbs 6: 16-19 abominations LESS than homosexuality. Or, put another way, are we to "hate" homosexuality MORE than the Proverbs 6: 16-19 abominations. Silence to this question would be deafening. Thanks! latterain77

    [ April 26, 2003, 09:44 AM: Message edited by: latterrain77 ]
     
  8. Baptist Bible Believer

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    Latterrain writes:

    "The Apostle Paul associated with homosexuals (1 Cor. 6: 9-11, especially v9). According to the inerrant text, these homosexuals were SAVED (v11). The text says "such WERE some of you" (v11; washed, sanctified, justified). They became saved because some forward thinking Christians of that day REACHED OUT TO THEM and preached the Gospel to them! Sinners are reached by the "hearing" of the word (Romans 10:17). If the Corinthian era preachers had taken the position about homosexuals that many in the church do today, then those homosexual folks of 1 Cor. 6: 9-11 would NOT have become saved and the Bible would be missing a few verses - GOD FORBID (Rev. 22: 19). Heaven would be missing a few believers too!"

    Paul wrote:

    "Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, 10Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God. 11And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God." (1 Cor. 6:9-11)

    BBB:

    Latterrain, I don't think this was your intention, but I rather received the impression from your response that some people are "born" homosexual, and some are "born" heterosexual. It sounded as though you might be buying into the concept that our human genes determine our sexual bias'.

    This would insist that GOD is cabable of erring, thereby putting the onus upon Him as the cause of their condition. That is to say, "We can't help what we are, it's your fault, GOD!"

    Again, I don't believe this was your intention.

    Homosexuals, yes, Sodomites are sinners. As sinners they chose their lifestyle, "because that when they knew GOD they glorified Him not as GOD, but became vain in their imaginations and their foolish heart was darkened." That same HOLY SPIRIT that convicted me of my sin and brought me to CHRIST convicts those that will hear His voice. "And such were some of you."

    Latterrain, my point is that these people, washed by the precious blood of JESUS CHRIST are no longer homosexuals. We are not instructed to water down the message of the inerrant, infallible Word of GOD to appease our audience. If a queer comes to a Bible-preaching church and hears the message "ye must be born again," and responds to it - is he not immediately "delivered from the power of darkness and translated into the kingdom of His dear SON?" Just like the rest of us.

    It seems that there is another false concept out here that a person is a homosexual is a homosexual is a homosexual. In other words, he is a homosexual/sodomite by nature. No! He is a vile reprobate "when" he engages in the sin of Sodomy.

    It is entirely possible that you have someone close that is swept up in this sin - which would account for what I see as a defensive posture toward them.

    "Except (they) repent, (they) must also likewise perish"
     
  9. Y'Israel

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    This is one of those politically correct things...in which the Church has remained silent..for the most part...when we should have stood...and been heard...homosexuality is not natural...but an un-natural act...an abomination to our Creator...The Lord...

    At some point the scientific community even went so far as to proclaim the discovery of the gene that causes homosexuality...later recanting...saying they have discovered no such gene...lies...

    The DSM-IV...does not include...Homosexuality...as a mental disorder...it was excluded in 1973...as it was deemed...that the homosexual...shows no significant psychopathology, and functions very well socially and occupationally...lies again...

    Our bodies...(human beings)...are the Centerpeice of God's creation...and are beautiful machines...any time one tries to make a machine preform functions for which they were not designed...do they not...at some point break down?...malfunction?...

    do we not see a tremendous spread of STD...including AIDs...around the world?...and was the origin of AIDs...not in the homosexual community?...fooling around with that...God has told us to leave alone...

    God created sex...for procreation...and as the deepest from of expression of human love...between a man and a woman...not same sex...and laid down certain rules...to be followed...many of the rules...guidelines...are for our own protection...and when examined...make very logical and perfect sense...He created our bodies...and He knows what is best for us...knows what will hurt us...

    Who would be the author of these lies...this perversion of what God created?...this wonderful gift...our sexuality...Who would blind man so as to think that sex with the same sex is a clean thing...and blind others to accept it as normal...who else...tis the devil...reared back on his foul hunches...laughing his head off...at the silly these humans...
     
  10. Istherenotacause

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    For all those who posted that the word sodomite and homosexual are equal, I have to disagree totally. If you call a heterosexual a homosexual, you usually get an angry response. When you call a sodomite a homosexual, they usually just smile and might even invite you into a relationship. (you might have to read between the lines on that one), But when you call them a sodomite, they respond the same everywhere, if you don't believe me, then come on down to Little Five Forks, down here in Atlanta, Ga. See the countenance change altogether, for they know that word as representative of the wrath of God on that particualr sin. Now let me go on to say that I am not advocating a hateful and condemning spirit, if you can't name out a sin without condemning the sinner and having the love of God shed abroad in your heart, then it would be best to just keep your mouth shut. I say this due to the fact we are all in the same condemnation for sin, they know that, and so should we.

    Condemnation always has the same respose of retribution and hatred for the one condemning. Is this what the Lord would have? No. We all quote John 3:16 but read the next verse into your memory: "For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world, but that through him, they might be saved."

    Call sin black, for all sin is, but the sinner? The sinner is already under condemnation, but conviction for sin doesn't come about until the desire to be loved enters into the heart and mind. Then that love of God must be shown to present the cure and relief from sin's condemnation.

    Some of the greatest words in our Bible came from a thief dying on a cross, at the right hand of Jesus, "We are in the same condemnation, but this man hath done nothing amiss."

    We are to be epistles of grace and mercy, evidences of the longsuffering and the lovingkindenesses of the Lord, not a letter containing love and hate in the same content. That is utter confusion to all who would come to know Jesus otherwise. We are written epistles KNOWN and READ of men, having the love of God shed abroad in our hearts. We don't have anybody fooled and to think the lost are less knowledgable is the too common mistake many will continue to make until this knowledge is turned into wisdom on how to deal with people. Spouting off truth without the earnest of the Spirit is as heretical as giving a false truth. If we are to be Christlike, then we are to remain in that state of worship as Jesus told the woman at Jacob's well. Jesus told her that God is a Spirit, and seeketh such to worship Him in spirit and truth. Jesus is the Truth, the Life, and the Way, He is our Example to follow, a gentle hand to the unbelieving and the one caught in the death grip of despair, yet a swift hand of rebuke for the "learned" and "religious", reproving the error of their ways, trying to return them to the path of the straight and narrow.

    Remember these words, "A soft answer turneth away wrath". The sodomite only needs to see the grossness of his sin, what his sin did to the Son of God who died for you and me, sinners all the same, under the same condemnation for sin. Most of all, the Love of our God bestowed upon all men, to return them to the state of innocence only the Blood of Christ can produce! [​IMG]

    Point people to the Son of God, not to the penalty of the law of sin.

    In Christ,

    Brother Ricky
     
  11. Y'Israel

    Y'Israel
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    Brother Ricky...

    Reading your post...with very good points...brought two things to mind...

    The old cliche..."Love the Sinner...Hate the sin..."

    And the story of the man and the mule...
    mule wouldn't move...the man tried everything...mule didn't budge...

    Farmer came along...said..."I can make the mule move"...He picked up a big rock...and hit the mule in the head with it, right between the ears...whispered in the mule's ear...and the mule got up and moved off...

    the man asked the farmer...why he hit the mule in the head with the rock...Farmer said..."First ya got to get their attention..."

    Y'Israel...
     
  12. Y'Israel

    Y'Israel
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    C. S. Murphy...

    First name wouldn't be Charles...tis a Family name...in my Family...

    I am also a Murphy...some of my family moved to Georgia...during the Civil War...

    Have an ancester...who died...and is burried on Oglethorpe, Ga...

    Y'Israel...
     
  13. Baptist Bible Believer

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    I also noticed the "Murph" at the end of the post. Just like you used to do.

    Now I need to watch to see if he also uses the occasional "Murphy" when he needs to get a particular point across. :eek:
     
  14. Y'Israel

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    has to be in all caps...MURPHY...
     
  15. Lace

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    "I know this question has been asked in other forums but not here. In my view homosexuality is sinful no matter the circumstances, does anyone dissagree?"

    Let's ask God........

    "For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness; Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them. For the invisible things of Him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse: Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened. Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools, And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things. Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness throught the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves: Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen. For this cause God gave them up unto vile affectons: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature: And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet." Romans 1:18-27

    THUS SAITH THE LORD
     
  16. latterrain77

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    Hi BaptistBibleBeliever. Thank you for the thoughts.

    You said; "It sounded as though you might be buying into the concept that our human genes determine our sexual bias'."

    I do not believe that sexuality is "in the genes." However, I also do not believe that it is necessarily a "choice" either. It appears that ALL sexuality is derived from "identity" issues specific to each person's experience. That is why one must be "born again" - a NEW "identity" is required to effectuate change.

    You said; "...No! He is a vile reprobate "when" he engages in the sin of Sodomy."

    The sin of Sodom is documented in Eze. 16: 49. Homosexuality is not one of them. While many focus on the "homosexual" verse in Lev. 20: 13 they seem to pretend that the "heterosexual" verses surrounding that verse (such as Lev. 20: 10) don't exist. The Bible treats each of them with the same conclusion. My point is that we should be equally balanced in what the Bible says.

    You said; "It is entirely possible that you have someone close that is swept up in this sin - which would account for what I see as a defensive posture toward them."

    Not at all (that I'm aware of). Perhaps that explains why I'm not as emotional or pre-occupied with homosexuality as others seem to be. I apologize if my posture seemed defensive in my last post. I intended it to be Biblical not defensive. That is why I quoted so many Biblical verses and, why I requested answers to a number of my own questions too (none of which were answered so far).

    You said; "We are not instructed to water down the message of the inerrant, infallible Word of GOD to appease our audience."

    I agree entirely. That is why we cannot single out homosexuality with a greater force than anything else. Yet so many do just this (to appease their audience perhaps?). Isn't singling out homosexuality over other verses "watering down" the rest of the Bible?

    You said; "If a queer comes to a Bible-preaching church and hears the message "ye must be born again,..."

    If someone came to my church I surely would not think of him as a "queer" (how would you know that they were homosexual?) Rather, I would assume that anyone coming to church is someone looking to hear the Gospel or seeking fellowship. Accordingly, it would be my pleasure and privilege to offer both. How else will he hear unless a preacher be sent? (Rom. 10: 14).

    Last thought; true salvation can only occur with the deep inner sense that we must become "last" in order to become "first" (Matt. 20: 16). If one does not abandon the goal of being the "first" then it will only guarantee one's being the "last" in the end. Exclusivity is an extremely difficult emotion to extinguish. It is also the root of much sorrow. Thanks! latterrain77

    [ April 26, 2003, 05:58 PM: Message edited by: latterrain77 ]
     
  17. just-want-peace

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    :confused:

    latterrain77, for some reason you seem not to get the point that this particular abomination is the ONLY one that is being foisted on us as "NORMAL, JUST DFFERENT; APPROVED OF BY GOD, TOTALLY IGNORING HIS COMMANDS AGAINST IT; ON AN EQUAL BASIS WITH THE GOD-GIVEN COVENANT OF MARRIAGE; ETC, ETC, ETC AD-INFINITUM" :mad:

    I've seen no-one advocating that other sins are "OK, or even ACCEPTABLE" vs the homo lifestyle, so I really feel that you aren't truly "just questioning" as you have so stated. With all the publicity evident re: the agenda of the queers, you appear to have some motive to downplay the seriousness of this situation rather than others giving it too much attention. :confused:

    If the "Adulterers" of the nation wanted to parade to get their lifestyle accepted, or pushed for legislation to criminalize unkind words from an individual, or condemned ANY comment that can be taken out of context and used as "adulterer bashing", then the wrath of these board members would fall just as vehemently on the "adulterers"! [​IMG]
     
  18. Baptist Bible Believer

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    Latterrain's comments:

    You said; "If a queer comes to a Bible-preaching church and hears the message "ye must be born again,..."

    If someone came to my church I surely would not think of him as a "queer" (how would you know that they were homosexual?) Rather, I would assume that anyone coming to church is someone looking to hear the Gospel or seeking fellowship. Accordingly, it would be my pleasure and privilege to offer both. How else will he hear unless a preacher be sent? (Rom. 10: 14)."

    BBB:

    It would not be necessary for me or anyone else to know that condition of the human heart that has entered into the church. It is possible that if he is related to one of the members - the pastor may have been apprised of the situation, but I would not expect an announcement in the bulletin. On the other hand, some of the members of this "persuasion" sometime give it away by their flaming appearance.

    Irregardless, latterrain, the message doesn't change. As I said, if that person involved in this deviancy hears AND responds to the gospel message and is saved - then according to 1 Cor. 6, is he not also washed. Is not his homosexuality at that point considered past tense?


    Last thought; true salvation can only occur with the deep inner sense that we must become "last" in order to become "first" (Matt. 20: 16). If one does not abandon the goal of being the "first" then it will only guarantee one's being the "last" in the end. Exclusivity is an extremely difficult emotion to extinguish. It is also the root of much sorrow. Thanks! latterrain77"

    Is this a new definition of repentance? If not, what condition are you placing on the human soul precursory to salvation? I am afraid that you have added some steps to the process that simply are not there. This will come later as the convert recognizes the Lordship of CHRIST in his life - but certainly not as a sine qua non of grace.

    I am sorry, latterrain, but this sounds too much like another gospel to me.
     
  19. C.S. Murphy

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    77 I am still very concerned about your views on sodomy/homosexuality. Your posts here have not helped to satisfy my questions. It seems that you cannot discuss this issue without pointing out how there are plenty of other sins to worry about. While this is true it has not been the focus of the thread. Concerning your opinion on homosexuality not being a sin of sodom I feel you are dead wrong, but this is the most alarming quote from you thus far: " I also do not believe that it is necessarily a "choice" either." The Bible is expressly clear that #1 homosexuality is sinful and #2 it is a choice because God has created no person in error. This thinking is a slap in the face of a loving creator. I must propose a litmas test for you my friend, I want you to soundly proclaim your belief that homosexuality is sinul in all it's forms and to do so without any mention or comparison to the sinfulness of heterosexuals or any other sinful topic such as you have done in prior posts. I am sorry but as this is a fundamental forum with the posts presented being from a literal interpretation, if one believes that homosexuality is not a choice then I have a problem seeing why they qualify to post in this forum. This type of instruction would be best delivered by Pm but you don't participate in that program so here it is.
    Murph
     
  20. Artimaeus

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    latterain
    The sin of Sodom is documented in Eze. 16: 49. Homosexuality is not one of them.


    It is if you don't stop at verse 49 and continue on to 50.

    Exe 16:50 And they were haughty, and committed abomination before me: therefore I took them away as I saw good.

    Homosexuality is certainly not the only abomination but it is one of them.

    Lev 19:22 Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination. 23 Neither shalt thou lie with any beast to defile thyself therewith: neither shall any woman stand before a beast to lie down thereto: it is confusion.

    The men of Sodom were certainly guilty of this.

    Gen 19:5 And they called unto Lot, and said unto him, Where are the men which came in to thee this night? bring them out unto us, that we may know them.

    Therefore, I think it is quite reasonable that sodomy is referenced by that "abomination" in Exe 16:50.

    Johnv
    BTW, unless I am misreading my dictionary definition of sodomy I don't believe that it is a part of a Godly sexual expression of love.

    Sodomy - unnatural sexual intercouse, esp. of one man with another or of a human being with an animal

    I know some states throw in other things into their state laws and later rescend them. I am assuming that you mean something that MIGHT be CALLED sodomy by someone but in actuality isn't.
     

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