Homosexuals are born gay

Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by JRG39402, Mar 16, 2006.

  1. JRG39402

    JRG39402
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    I knew that topic would get some people's attention. But listen to where I am coming from. Since all people are born of a sinful nature, we are all inclined to sin. That sin could be lying, stealing, lust, homosexuallity, ect. If a homosexual tells you "I was born this way", why argue with them? It doesn't go against the Bible to agree with them on that point. Just because you are inclined or tempted to sin doesn't make it right. Jesus was tempted, but didn't sin. God won't give us more than we can handle. He wouldn't allow people to deal with homosexuallity if they couldn't handle it. They can still say, even if they are tempted to live such a lifestyle, no. At least with God's help. So don't argue with someone on homosexuallity where you can't even get to the gospel. Just show them that we all are sinners in need of a savior and that when God saves us, he will give us a new heart with new desires. We can trust God because he cannot lie. That may mean God either
    1.) takes away the homosexual temptation completely or
    2.) gives you the desire to do what God wants and resist homosexual temptations.
    My point is that we are to love our neighbors, even if their particular sin problem is different from ours and rather than debate that intellectually, speak to their conscience. They know what is right even if they don't practice it.
    [​IMG]
     
  2. rbell

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    I see where you're coming from and in principle I agree...however, the semantics of "I was born gay" concern me.

    Unfortunately, one's being "gay" is no longer about behavior but identity. I'm not willing to concede that God would stamp someone with an abberant sexual identity. Because of our broken nature--yes, there may be struggles...but if you are "gay," then it is because of what you DO, not "who you ARE."

    And yes, our overarching concern should be for the eternal destiny of whoever crosses our path...
     
  3. JRG39402

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    rbell, I agree with you. What I meant is that it isn't worth debating intellectually when there is still a way I believe you can look at it Biblically. While I don't like to agree with gay people that say "I was born this way" for the reasons you gave, I also want to see if there is a biblical way to look at it, not debate, and get to the gospel.
     
  4. SuperBaptist

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    So, rbell, are you saying all of us are bron with the temptation to have sex with our own sex? Were you, but you overcame it?
     
  5. JRG39402

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    SuperBaptist, where do you see that at all in rbells reply. I certainly don't.
     
  6. Brother James

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    Some are born with attraction to children. Are we to accept that because that's who they are? Sin is sin and no excuse can be made for it no matter what type of fornication it is.
     
  7. rbell

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    :confused: :confused: :confused:

    SB, I have absolutely no idea what you're talking about here. I thought my the point of post was rather clear. And that ain't it.
     
  8. JRG39402

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    Brother James, I am not saying that. We have to protect those that cannot protect themselves. Some people also have mental problems that cloud the whole issue. You are smart enough to know the difference. The attraction to children is a smokescreen. I am simply saying that we must realize that we all are sinners. We were all born sinners. We all need a savior. God can give us new desires. That was my message. It was a simple one. Please don't confuse it.
     
  9. Petrel

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    People here always seem to leap this huge gulf from your saying "people can be born with a predisposition to same-sex attraction" to assuming the addition "and therefore I think homosexual sex is ok." It leads to some interesting conversation.
     
  10. rbell

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    We are created in the image of God.

    Because of sin, the image is marred.

    The marring of the image can be manifested in many ways...some folks become alcoholics quite easily. Some folks struggle with gossip their whole lives. Some struggle with sex, others less so.

    I think it's entirely possible that an affinity for homosexuality is part of that marring of the image of God--a broken image due to our sinful nature. This urge is not from God. It is a perversion--a weakness--because of our sin nature.

    As long as there is the clear, biblically informed understanding that homosexuality is a sin--whether it is something you struggle with, or something you'd never struggle with.

    Having said that, I still would rather define "gay" as an action, rather than as an orientation. "Orientation" conveys the meaning of "this in no way can be helped; it is inevitable." Wrong.
     
  11. Joseph M. Smith

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    I am not sure I know whether people are born gay, although there are certainly sometimes hormonal imbalances and the like that may lead in that direction. I tend to think more about the cultural and relational factors that appear to create that condition. But my response to any argument that suggests, "I was born/made/shaped that way, so I have to act it out" is that we are all called to exert self-control. Just that fact that I am heterosexual does not mean that I must act out that identity with anyone, anywhere.
     
  12. JRG39402

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    Petrel, you are so correct. At no point, at no time, under any circumstance do I say homosexuallity is ok. It is wrong, wrong, wrong. But so is lying, adultry/lust, hate/murder, stealing, ect. We need to realize that homosexuallity isn't this branch of sin that Christians are to avoid at such an extent that they won't witness to them. There are two extremes: accepting homosexuallity - wrong, and condemning homosexuals (God hates fags) - wrong. How is that "loving your neighbor as yourself." You wouldn't want someone telling you God hates heterosexualls or something similar. That's just rude. We need to be a loving witness to them just like everyone else. And if we can biblically avoid arguing whether they were "born that way", then we have done a lot of good. Because it matters how they end up, not how they started. It is biblcal to say they were born gay because we were born into sin depravity. That doesn't make it right, it just makes it easier to avoid arguments over whether it started at age 13 or 30.
     
  13. Filmproducer

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    JR,

    I understand where you are coming from and I agree 100%.
     
  14. standingfirminChrist

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    sure tell that person he was born gay. Give him a reason to say I cannot help it. It is God's will.
     
  15. JRG39402

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    standingfirminchrist, I am not talking about saying he is born gay, I am saying there isn't a reason to debate that point specifically. But even if you say what I believe, that does not excuse it. Read what I wrote: "At no point, at no time, under any circumstance do I say homosexuallity is ok. It is wrong, wrong, wrong."
    It is not God's will that anyone live under sin. I am just saying let's not sanctify other sins by putting so much specific attention on that sin. If you get in a yelling argument, you won't even get to the saving gospel. You can say, "You may have been born with temptation to live a gay lifestyle just like at times I am tempted to lie, but that doesn't make it right. Because I feel it is right doesn't make it right. There is a way that seems right to man, but in the end it leads to destruction. Let's not argue over whether or not you actually were born gay or not because in the end it won't matter to God. You are not an animal that cannot control themselves. You and I have both chosen to give into the temptation to sin. God loves you and I so much though that he doesn't want us to suffer the consequenses of those actions. Do you know what he did so you and I don't have to go to hell...?" That is the attitude to have. :)
     
  16. DHK

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    We are born with a sin nature; that much is true. That sin nature is fully capable of committing any sin, even adultery and murder as David (a man after God's own heart) demonstrated. But to suggest that a man is born with a genetic disposition to be gay is abhorrent in the sight of God. This is not true. It is absolutely false. It is akin to saying that just as some are born with down's syndrome, some are born with the gene for homosexuality. Garbage!
    DHK
     
  17. Petrel

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    Sfic, don't you think you'd better determine the truth before you go telling people what to say for convenience's sake?
     
  18. Petrel

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    Upon what scientific basis do you say this?
     
  19. standingfirminChrist

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    How about this DHK?...

    I was born a sinner, so I must go out and murder people.

    I was born a sinner, so I must go out and rape.

    I must go out and steal, lie, covet, etc...

    I'm with ya, Bro!
     
  20. Scott J

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    No. The point is valid for discussion.

    We inherit a sin nature and there doesn't seem to be any indication that people are not born with specific besetting sins.

    The difference is that those arguing that homosexuals are born that way are asserting that they are biologically and invariably predestined to be homosexual... not that they are born with a spiritual condition that can be changed through regeneration.

    So- We should take their claim which they make intending to suggest some biological force beyond their control and shift the emphasis to a state of spiritual rebellion which they are completely responsible for.
     

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