Honest (but perhaps offensive) question:

Discussion in '2003 Archive' started by ScottEmerson, Jul 2, 2003.

  1. ScottEmerson

    ScottEmerson
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    This question was posed first by Edwin McManus:

    Would you be willing to lay down your life for a cross-dressing homosexual to come to Christ?

    If so, what are you doing now, then, to help him come to Christ?

    If not, why not?
     
  2. Gina B

    Gina B
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    No. I think I'd be unwilling to lay down my life for anyone except my children. How would that help anyhow? LOL I'm not Jesus.
    We can teach the gospel, let them know they're in sin, be a good example.
    Gina
     
  3. ColoradoFB

    ColoradoFB
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    Joh 15:13 Greater love has no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends.
     
  4. Gina B

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    And you are my friends, if you do all that I command you.
    Something like that!
    Gina
     
  5. John Wells

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    Let's see, how much emotionalism can we attach to "bait" the subject of homosexuality?

    We were not commissioned (Great) to go and die for the first witnessing prospect we come across. We are to witness "to all the world." It would be a sin to subject my family to the hardships they would endure by my demise! The statements have nothing to do with the "special conditions" of this sinner. They would apply to any lost person, whatever their sins. ;)
     
  6. LadyEagle

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    Joh 15:13 Greater love has no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends.

    That's what our Military does!
     
  7. ColoradoFB

    ColoradoFB
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    Unrelated verse...

    Jesus talking about HIS friends.

    Joh 15:14 You are my friends if you do what I command you.
     
  8. NeilUnreal

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    "Very rarely will anyone die for a righteous man, though for a good man someone might possibly dare to die. But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us."

    This is the standard we're called to follow.

    -Neil
     
  9. Mark Osgatharp

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    Gina,

    Amen! That is all we can do to bring any sinner to Christ.

    I might add that the whole idea of special ministries to special classes of sinners is totally ridiculous. There is one gospel for all men and the only thing we have to do is preach indiscriminately to all.

    "Ministries" directed at sodomites only serve to keep the issue alive in people's mind - when really there is no issue at all - and to embarrass those who have been guilty of the sin of sodomy. I mean, which one of us wants to make all our sins known before the whole world by attending some silly rap session.

    Why aren't there special ministries directed at child molesters and rapists? Did not Christ die for these as well as sodomites, drunkards, and single mothers?

    Why isn't there there a GA group - gossips anonymous? Or a DOU - disobedient wives unlimited? Or a WAS - wife abusers set free. The motto could be, "I WAS a wife a abuser."

    The Lord put his churches in the world and they have been preaching to gospel to all men every since and will be till Christ comes. If a sodomite wants to get right with God let him trust in Chirst, cease from his sodomy, repent of his sodomy, get baptized, get in the church and quit whining about how bad the world has treated him, and take up his cross and follow Christ.

    Mark Osgatharp
     
  10. I Am Blessed 24

    I Am Blessed 24
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    Christ does not want us to DIE for Him (except dying to self). He wants us to LIVE for Him!
     
  11. Amanda

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    amen!
     
  12. Joseph_Botwinick

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    AMEN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! [​IMG]
     
  13. ScottEmerson

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    You guys are missing the point here. Christians have for the last 2,000 years had to lay down their life for Christ.

    Perhaps I should rephrase,

    Is your life more important than a cross-dressing homosexual's salvation?

    If so, what are you doing now, then, to help him come to Christ?

    If not, why not?
     
  14. ScottEmerson

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    Not about emotionalism. It's about the willingness to love.

    No we weren't. However, the Bible makes more than a passing reference to people being persecuted to the point of death. We know from history that there have been missionaries who have given their life to spread the gospel message.

    And how much do we as a church want to do that? (rhetorical question)

    So you would place hardships on your family about the salvation of a non-believer? What do you make of Christ's repeated statement that a person must deny their family completely to follow Him? Where is your Scriptural support for saying that subjecting your family to hardships for the cause of Christ is a sin? Is that not what many families do when they go overseas to do mission work?

    So what would you do? Would you place his salvation above your own life?
     
  15. Joseph_Botwinick

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    Your first question doesn't seem to have much to do with the second question. I am not called to die for their salvation. Jesus did that for all sinners. What I do to help all sinners (homosexual or not) is pray for them, preach the word, and share the good news of freedom through Christ with them. If they are caught in the sinful lifestyle of Homosexuality, I tell them so. I love the sinner and hate the sin. However, loving the sinner doesn't mean candy coating the sin in order to make them feel better about going to Hell.

    Joseph Botwinick
     
  16. ScottEmerson

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    Gina,

    Amen! That is all we can do to bring any sinner to Christ.</font>[/QUOTE]We can be their friend. We can love them. We can invite them to church. There are many more things that we can do. We must also remember that we can't "bring any sinner to Christ." Christ has to do that work.

    Acts shows that there were special ministries depending on need. So why shouldn't we?

    Obviously those who attend those meetings. Homosexuals who have escaped the chains of homosexuality are often outspoken about the redemptive purpose of Christ and how He changed their life. The majority of them that I have seen are not embarrassed by it. They were who they were and now they are who they are.

    There should be. God desires their salvation as much as he desired ours.

    There should be. Of course, I've also had the responsibility and privilege of counseling someone who was an ex-abuser who came to Christ who redeemed him from that. He is sorry for what he was, but is so excited about what he is today.

    Those who have been redeemed from homosexuality don't whine about how bad the world has treated them. They are the ones who are going out and helping to resuce others who are caught up by sin.

    So what is your answer to the question? Is a homosexual's salvation more important than your life?
     
  17. John Wells

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    I assume you meant "above the salvation." The statement you refer to implies that we should love God/Jesus above all else, but are you really proposing that the Bible teaches we are to "deny our family" in fulfilling our kingdom work? Men are called to be spiritual leaders of their families and to provide for and protect them. Yes, missionaries and their families sometimes lose their lives because of where they are and what they are doing. Sharing the gospel has always been dangerous work. Just ask the Apostle Paul! But show me one instance where Jesus taught, or anyone in the Bible said to a non-believer, "If you'll accept Christ as your savior, I'll give up my life." I think your question has crossed over into the realm of ridiculous! :eek:
     
  18. Baptist Believer

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    So I guess that would mean you would be opposed to a ministry I used to associate with in Houston that worked to get runaway teens off the streets, get them acclimated to normal life (including getting them off drugs if necessary), sharing the love of Jesus to them, and reuniting them with their families – if their families would take them back. Quite a few of those teens were involved in prostitution because that’s the only way they could survive on the streets. (The boys were often involved in homosexual prostitution because men were more likely to pay for their services than women.)

    Most of those teens ended up trusting their lives to Christ because of the love expressed to them by Christians who went out of their way to seek them out from behind dumpsters and inside clubs in Houston’s gay district. At the same time, most churches wouldn’t want anything to do with those teens because they had so many problems and might “corrupt” the church youth group.

    If Jesus came to seek and save sinners – and we are to follow His example – then ministering to specific classes of sinners is one of the most Christ-like things we can do.
     
  19. Mark Osgatharp

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    Scott,

    You said,

    "Acts shows that there were special ministries depending on need. So why shouldn't we?"

    No it doesn't, and we shouldn't. "Preach the gospel to every creature" is what the Lord said. You said,

    "There should be [speical ministries for various sins]. God desires their salvation as much as he desired ours."

    Sure God desire "their" salvation as much as "ours" - we are them buddy! That doesn't prove anything about special interest groups for sinners, a concept which is foreign to the Bible. You said,

    "Those who have been redeemed from homosexuality don't whine about how bad the world has treated them."

    Of course not all do, but the ones involved in the special interest groups do. I've heard them do it on the radio. You asked,

    "So what is your answer to the question? Is a homosexual's salvation more important than your life?"

    No, and if called upon to die for taking a stand against the sin of sodomy I hope I would do so and would hope that my doing so might convict some sodomite of his need of Christ.

    When I preach the gospel I don't ask people what their personal sins are - I just preach it. I've never been called on do die for it or even to suffer bodily harm, but I would hope that, if called on to do so, I would, and, if I did, that my stand would bring some unbeliever - sodomite or otherwise - to Christ.

    Mark Osgatharp
     
  20. Jailminister

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    Nice question, but easy answer. I don't have to do so. Jesus has already done it, if they have ears to hear.
     

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