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Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by ituttut, Nov 14, 2006.

  1. Brother Bob

    Brother Bob New Member

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    AW, give me the knock down, drag out type myself. :smilewinkgrin: :saint:
     
  2. rbell

    rbell Active Member

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    [​IMG]

    and you just thought Baptists didn't play cards...
     
  3. ituttut

    ituttut New Member

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    I'll accept that from one who is full of it. Does that sound right? Just wrote the below, but can't figure this portion out right at the moment as we're "stepping out" tonight to eat at a favorite little restaurant, celebrating our "Wedding Anniversary".

    Paul wrote to me telling me Christ appointed him to be my Apostle. When I realized he really meant it, I started to read those personal letters he sent to me. Before that I thought surely Jesus was talking to me, but the more I studied I found He had no intention of talking to me while He was man walking on this earth. When I finally knuckled down to see why I was getting mixed signal's, I saw there was something that happened in the book of Acts. There was some joker saying he had information some others didn't have.

    As I continued in this vein, I began to see some things that really scared me for I was seeing this "wild card" just may have the authority to preach to me a gospel he said was his and Christ Jesus had revealed it to him. I knew this man was very knowledgeable in Temple worship of the "law and prophets", and had rejected his Messiah, and was involved in killings, jailing's, and harassments of those of the Jerusalem church whose gospel was that of John the Baptist to the Jew of the kingdom is at hand. And he was not of the gospel of the "great commission" that Peter preached "Ye men of Israel" Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost."

    I had been taught all my life that Paul was an Apostle and preached the same gospel as the others. But if he was of the same gospel, then why did he say he was not? The more I read and compared what occurred before, and after Damascus Road, the picture was becoming clearer. There were two gospels being preached in the time of all the Apostles. Twelve were preaching the gospel of the "circumcision", the Jewish Apostolic Pentecostal church, and the One Apostle to both the Gentile and the Jew, was preaching the Christian "uncircumcision gospel", that "dispensational gospel", of God reconciling the world unto himself.

    The division was there at that time of the "Kingdom Church", and the "Body Church". The division made, I no longer got those mixed signal's of trying to stand on two foundations. I believe we do have a choice today, for He did "foreknow", we predestined would choose in Him the "Kingdom Church", or the "Body Church".
     
    #23 ituttut, Nov 16, 2006
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 16, 2006
  4. Brother Bob

    Brother Bob New Member

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    Yea, but they were converted so it was the same Gospel in the end of things.

    Acts: 10

    45: And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost.
    46: For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God. Then answered Peter,
    47: Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?
    48: And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days.
     
    #24 Brother Bob, Nov 16, 2006
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 16, 2006
  5. John of Japan

    John of Japan Well-Known Member
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    That can be fun--unless you're the one being knocked down and dragged out! :laugh:
     
  6. John of Japan

    John of Japan Well-Known Member
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    Congratulations! I wish you a wonderful time with your sweetheart, and many more happy years. :thumbs: :godisgood:
     
  7. Brother Bob

    Brother Bob New Member

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    yea, I know that feeling too. Just thought I would lighten things up a little. :laugh: :laugh:
     
  8. ituttut

    ituttut New Member

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    But Nay not so. The gospel preached by Peter to Cornelius was not the same gospel he preached to the "Kingdom Church", the Church of the "circumcised". The Holy Spirit put the words into Peter's mouth, for this is the first time a Jew preached to a Gentile as Acts 10 shows, and this was some time after Damascus Road.

    Look at the message God spoke from the mouth of Peter, and then stopped Peter's tongue so Peter could not preach the "circumcision gospel" of the great commission to a Gentile. Acts 10:43-44, "To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins.
    44. While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word."
    Peter was never again given authority to preach to a Gentile for Jesus had given to Peter, and the other earthly Apostle's the gospel of the Jewish "Kingdom Church", that of the "great commission" shown in Matthew, Mark, Luke, John, and Acts 2.

    Acts 15, and Galatians 2 tells us neither Peter or any Apostles would ever preach their gospel to those "uncircumcised". His earthly Apostles no longer had the authority to preach to the Gentiles for a year after Pentecost Israel was cut-off as God's only chosen nation, His people failed to accept Messiah. After the destruction of the Temple and Jerusalem, only the gospel of Paul was to continue to Gentile and Jew.

    Christ gave to Paul in an Arabian desert (and afterwards) his gospel to preach to the Gentile, and to the Jew in this "dispensation" of the grace of God through faith, and with no work on our part, for Jesus Christ did all of the "work". God had Peter preach this message with witnesses from the Jewish Jerusalem church, in order to verify and show Paul to be what he says he is. Paul is the Apostle to the Gentile, also to the Jew. Acts 16:28-31, "But Paul cried with a loud voice, saying, Do thyself no harm: for we are all here.
    29. Then he called for a light, and sprang in, and came trembling, and fell down before Paul and Silas,
    30. And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved?
    31. And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.
    32. And they spake unto him the word of the Lord, and to all that were in his house.
    33. And he took them the same hour of the night, and washed their stripes; and was baptized, he and all his, straightway."

    God encloses the gospel He gave to Paul with Peter on the beginning end and wraps it up with the Gospel Book of John 30 or so years after the death of Paul. Those of this "dispensation" will be removed from between the two who had the gospel to the "circumcision", the Kingdom Church. That gospel will return after we are removed, and will be preached by the Jew only, to the whole world. Jesus nowhere ever gave authority to any Gentile to preach the gospel of the Jewish "great commission" to any one. That is reserved only for the 12 tribes of Israel.

    If you will look closely at what you posted, can you honestly say you believe all of what is said? If so then why would you submit to, and baptize in the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost? This is not what Peter says in verse 48.
     
  9. ituttut

    ituttut New Member

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    Thank you. And agree, God is very, very good.
     
  10. John of Japan

    John of Japan Well-Known Member
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    You did. :smilewinkgrin:
     
  11. Brother Bob

    Brother Bob New Member

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    Gospel is the power of God unto Salvation. I think it took a change in its message but still same Gospel. Bible says the Gospel was preached unto them the same as we. Sounds the same to me.
     
  12. LeBuick

    LeBuick New Member

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    But only to them who believe...


    Ro 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.
     
  13. Brother Bob

    Brother Bob New Member

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    The question was are there two Gospels?
     
  14. LeBuick

    LeBuick New Member

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    I know, I was getting ready for Sunday. 8AM I plan to speak on, "The Power of the Gospel". Saving power, healing power, transforming power etc... Yet it is worthless if you don't believe (I know, strong statement).

    We have so much power availible to us yet we refuse to tap the source and let it become part of our life.
     
  15. ituttut

    ituttut New Member

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    Getting back to the serious side here.

    But don't we need to know why James, Peter, John and those of the Jewish "circumcision" would not preach their gospel to the "uncircumcised" Gentile? What does Paul mean when he says he will not build on another man's foundation? I personally believe these are legitimate question's we need to ask for better understanding.

    I asked, and He answered. He said look in the Book for all answers.
     
  16. LeBuick

    LeBuick New Member

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    I'm not sure if your question is 100% accurate???

    Galatians 2:11 But when Peter was come to Antioch, I withstood him to the face, because he was to be blamed.
    12 For before that certain came from James, he did eat with the Gentiles: but when they were come, he withdrew and separated himself, fearing them which were of the circumcision.
    13 And the other Jews dissembled likewise with him; insomuch that Barnabas also was carried away with their dissimulation.
    14 But when I saw that they walked not uprightly according to the truth of the gospel, I said unto Peter before them all, If thou, being a Jew, livest after the manner of Gentiles, and not as do the Jews, why compellest thou the Gentiles to live as do the Jews?

    Verse 14 says Peter lived like a Gentile but was encouraging Gentiles to live and do as the Jews. You can also see that James and the others did fellowship with the Gentiles yet they withdrew and separated themselves when Paul came. So the question is not why would they not preach to the uncircumcised, it's why were they ashame of preaching to the uncircumcised?

    The answer to your second question is in the very next verse, Romans 15:21 But as it is written, To whom he was not spoken of, they shall see: and they that have not heard shall understand.

    Paul thought it was more important to take the Gospel to those who had not heard than to duplicate the efforts of others. Things were going we in Rome so he initially went elsewhere. He did later visit Rome.
     
  17. blackbird

    blackbird Active Member

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    Stick to the topic of the thread, please

    Bro. David, Moderator
     
  18. ituttut

    ituttut New Member

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    You are kidding, aren't you?

    When James came, Peter did eat with the Gentiles. When they (James) came Peter withdrew, fearing those of the circumcision faith. Why do you think Paul is upbraiding Peter here?[quote]
    The other Jews (including Barnabas) there also feared James the head of the "Kingdom Church", which James remained justified by faith, as he tells us all, for he will show you his works to prove his faith. James was "conditionally" saved, having to endure until the end. Every Jew of the Kingdom Church in that day gave great deference to the half brother of Jesus. All these Jews that left associating with the Gentile dog's had originally been justified by faith, all were associated with the Kingdom Church, and not the Body Church. Through faith justification, and the Body Church can only come to those that believe just by believing on the name of the Lord Jesus Christ, they will be saved. James and all the other were justified by faith, and are of the "covenant promises".

    For heavens sake we must realize these are all Jews that are of Israel; they are of Moses, the Law and the Prophets, of David and Solomon. They are of the gospel of John the Baptist calling for Repentance, and Water Baptism for the Remission of Sins. These people are God's chosen people. All their life they were told to never associate with a heathen Gentile dog, just as Jesus would not do. We cannot imagine those times of upheaval, as God began to implement His Purpose from the beginning. Don't we know churches that believe this is their gospel, that they must repent and be water baptized to be saved?

    But God singled out Saul/Paul and said I show you a secret in the mysteries of God. My purpose all along was to reconcile the world unto myself, and I Christ Jesus that sit on the right hand of my Father in heaven, now give you your gospel, to build on my foundation (do not dare attempt to build on the foundation I awarded Peter, James, John, and the others.)
    Impossible. James, Peter, John and the Jewish Apostolic church had not too long before this occurrence shook hand with Paul, and Barnabas they would not preach to or try to entice, solicit, or preach their "circumcision" gospel to a Gentile. You are saying these Jews were now going back on their word. James wouldn't be caught dead being in company with a Gentile. His half brother told him and anyone else that would listen and understand Him that He Jesus had not come for the Gentile dogs. James wants to be in that "kingdom that was at hand", and not in the "Body Church".
    Yes we are to understand the scriptures. When we do there are no contradictions.
    Jesus did speak to Saul/Paul verbally and face to face on Damascus Road. Jesus told him, he (Paul) was being commissioned to be the only Apostle to the Gentile and the Jew. You cannot remove the only Apostle to the Gentile that Christ appointed. The earthly Apostle's had no gospel for the Gentile, other than to be a proselyte to the Jewish "Kingdom Church", and they would have to be "circumcised", and make blood sacrifice just as James was doing.

    Paul was never versed in the gospel of the Jewish Pentecostal church. If we don't believe Christ Jesus gave to Paul His (Gods dispensational gospel) then we must then believe the gospel that James is justified under and that is by faith. Why is he still making blood sacrifices? God would not allow Paul to do such a thing, for Paul is not justified by faith, as is James.
    If that is what you really believe, that is, you believe on the Lord Jesus Christ for your salvation, then how can you also believe the gospel of the circumcision of the "great commission" of you must "repent and be water baptized for the remission of your sins". We have to choose, we predestined to be in the "Kingdom of God". We can either be in the "Kingdom Church", or the "Body Church", but not both.

    If you reject such declamations as this, then please tell us what the secret is that no man knew or could tell. We must remember that the Word became flesh, and Jesus was a man, as well as God but no man knew the secret if we believe the Word of God.
     
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