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Discussion in '2000-02 Archive' started by Ernie Brazee, Sep 8, 2001.

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  1. Ernie Brazee

    Ernie Brazee <img src ="/ernie.JPG">

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    Isn't it indicative of the condition of the heart how one accepts the Word of God?

    When I posted my arrival on this board I received ten responses. When I posted my concerns for the spirituality if todays Independent Baptists there were many more negative responses.

    Why is it wrong to be concerned about the lack of standards, the lack of seperation, the lack of ethics in pulpits, the alck of ethics among God's people?

    Why should we look the other way when we see brothers in a fault?

    Matthew 18:15-17 admonishes us to deal with sin among the brethren.

    II Timothy 2:2-5 Perhaps this explains why.

    Verse 2 says to reprove, rebuke, exhort with all long suffering and doctrine. Well praise the Lord! for those preachers that do and shame on those who want to please men more than God.

    Verse 3 describes many who name the name of Christ today.....they will not endure sound doctrine, but after their own lusts shall heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears.

    Now don't go revealing who you are by blasting me for what the Bible says. I named no names or accused anyone.

    Some one posted my lack of scripture use well there you have it what you do with it is between you and God....It is His Word AMEN!

    Ernie Brazee

    One of those poor souls who can only believe God's Word is true!
     
    #1 Ernie Brazee, Sep 8, 2001
  2. Dr. Bob

    Dr. Bob Administrator
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    <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Ernie Brazee:
    Why is it wrong to be concerned about the lack of standards, the lack of seperation, the lack of ethics in pulpits, the lack of ethics among God's people? Why should we look the other way when we see brothers in a fault?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>It is not wrong for you to have a concerned spirit about the condition of christianity today. Most here would agree it is often deplorable, worldly, carnal (and those are words the automatic censor will pass).

    The problem with that concern surfaces when you become the judge/jury of other christians based on your PERSONAL "standards", your PERSONAL interpretation of "separation", your PERSONAL body of "ethics", your PERSONAL judging a brother who has a "fault".

    Bible-based standards and ethics are sadly missing and man-based standards and ethics have replaced them. THIS, my friend, is where the conflict is.

    If you share the absolute crystal-clear BIBLE truth for a position (or in condemnation of another position), I will be right there, standing with you!

    If you defend man-made doctrine and dogma (like many do on the BB) I will come out with guns blazing! :eek:
     
    #2 Dr. Bob, Sep 8, 2001
  3. Joy

    Joy New Member

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    I certainly don't mean throw out all standards either- even some of the man-made ones are good. There has been however, a false view of of the keeping of standards that has returned some IFBs back into the condemnation of the Law, and sadly they have forgotten about the grace that saved them. They don't share the saving grace of Christ with others, they share a Gospel of Standards, and then expect others to follow them in order to be saved and or spiritual. This is false doctrine, and Independant Baptists had better wake up to it, or our testimony for Christ will be snuffed out! :(
     
    #3 Joy, Sep 8, 2001
  4. John Wells

    John Wells New Member

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    Joy2,

    Now there's a refreshing breath of discernment. ;)
     
    #4 John Wells, Sep 8, 2001
  5. Ernie Brazee

    Ernie Brazee <img src ="/ernie.JPG">

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    <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Joy2:
    I certainly don't mean throw out all standards either- even some of the man-made ones are good. There has been however, a false view of of the keeping of standards that has returned some IFBs back into the condemnation of the Law, and sadly they have forgotten about the grace that saved them. They don't share the saving grace of Christ with others, they share a Gospel of Standards, and then expect others to follow them in order to be saved and or spiritual. This is false doctrine, and Independant Baptists had better wake up to it, or our testimony for Christ will be snuffed out! :(<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    The saving grace of Christ also is the changing grace of Christ!

    No where have I stated standards were essential for salvation, you are sounding like Eve when she told the serpant they would die if they touched the tree...adding to what Adam taught her.

    There would be a lot less debauchery in this country if so called Christians were more concerned about pleasing God than finding ways to please the flesh!

    False doctrine...false doctrine to have dress standards?...false doctrine to cry out against an ungodly film industry? false doctrine to proclaim alcohol a destroyer?....and who declared any of this doctine?

    Standards are a result of salvation not arequirement..

    What a blessing to see a brand new Christian declare the abandonment of some pleasure,not because somone told them it was wrong, but because they were convicted of the Lord that it was wrong.

    To see someone who has a life style change, not because someone said "you must not", but because they wanted to please God.

    I have never witnessed one truly saved Christian who was serving the Lord with all their heart long for the sins of the world that some here defend more than the Lord!
    Please trash me all you want but how can you accuse IBF of false doctrine for crying out against sin. If this is truly how you feel please change your name to humanist for there is no evidence of the love FOR God in a statement that declares standards "FALSE DOCTRINE" Are you even aware what the word Doctrine means? Many spout the love of God but display little love FOR God to love God is to want to please Him, not self.

    When I became a Christian I wanted to please the Lord more than anything and gave up anything that hindered me from serving.

    Oh woe to us that Christians would become self pleasers, hiding under the God is Love and God forgives to rationalize their sin.

    In closing please tell me some of the "man made standards"

    Seen
    Ernms as though the verses I quoted have been completely ignored....No surprise! Favorite tactic of the neo evangelical

    Ernie

    [ September 08, 2001: Message edited by: Ernie Brazee ]
     
    #5 Ernie Brazee, Sep 8, 2001
  6. Joy

    Joy New Member

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    Hold your tongue, brother [​IMG] I am not a new evangelical. I speak out against sin. I have "high" standards. You are pretty new to the BB, so you don't know me all that well and can't judge me according to a couple of posts and throw insults. That wasn't very nice :eek: I think you completely missed the point of what I was refering to. ;)

    By the way, New Evangelicalism is the blending of many different faiths and religions into one- it has to do with separation of doctrine not squables over standards. :rolleyes:
     
    #6 Joy, Sep 8, 2001
  7. Lorelei

    Lorelei <img src ="http://www.amacominc.com/~lorelei/mgsm.

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    <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Ernie Brazee:
    Matthew 18:15-17 admonishes us to deal with sin among the brethren.

    <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    I believe most everyone here agrees with this.

    <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>

    II Timothy 2:2-5 Perhaps this explains why..    <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    Did you mean II Timothy 4:2-5?

    <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>
    Verse 2 says to reprove, rebuke, exhort with all long suffering and doctrine. Well praise the Lord! for those preachers that do and shame on those who want to please men more than God.

    <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    Let us not forget how they were supposed to do this. The word longsuffering, usually means patient. You find more instruction in Chapter 2 of II Timothy.

    2 Timothy 2
    24
    And the Lord's servant must not quarrel; instead, he must be kind to everyone, able to teach, not resentful.
    25
    Those who oppose him he must gently instruct, in the hope that God will grant them repentance leading them to a knowledge of the truth,
    26
    and that they will come to their senses and escape from the trap of the devil, who has taken them captive to do his will.

    Now, I have answered the two verses taht you have quoted in your very long posts. Any more scriptures for me? The Word I must answer to, you I need not.

    I think Dr. Bob and Joy covered what needed to be said rather well.

    ~Lorelei

    [ September 08, 2001: Message edited by: Lorelei ]
     
    #7 Lorelei, Sep 8, 2001
  8. Bob Landis

    Bob Landis New Member

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    I have been on this board a month now and I have seen many a potshot taken directly at fundamentalism. In this time I have learned that I do, say, and believe in so many things I didn't know that I did. I guess I have not been a very good IFB. Can anyone teach me to be as arrogant and condescending as I am supposedly portrayed here on the board?. At least that way if I am going to be accused, it will be for a good reason.
     
    #8 Bob Landis, Sep 8, 2001
  9. John Wells

    John Wells New Member

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    Well Ernie, hope you feel better after that blast of self-righteous indignation? Don't hold that nose too high; might drown when it rains!

    It's one thing to advocate believing, living, and walking the plumb line of God's standards. Many on this board believe in that. The problem with all of us is that we are not perfect. Obviously, you don't have that problem. :eek:
     
    #9 John Wells, Sep 8, 2001
  10. Bible Believing Bill

    Bible Believing Bill <img src =/bbb.jpg>

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    Amen Brother Wells!

    I hope Brother Ernie realizes that we are all carnel in nature and we have to fight that nature to become closer to the Father. When I was saved He forgave my sins, let me see my sins, made me not want to sin, but did NOT remove the ability to sin.
     
    #10 Bible Believing Bill, Sep 8, 2001
  11. Nicole

    Nicole New Member

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    I have dealt with the problem quite a bit in my church with certain individuals who tend to want to impose their "PERSONAL PREFERENCES" on others and when its not accepted by that person...they attack them and unjustly have accused them of spiritual immaturity and worse! I believe in pleasing God, not other people and what may be a stumbling block for one person...may not be a problem with someone else. However, if something is causing me to stumble, that's where the Holy Spirit intervenes and convicts me of this. I do think as Christians we should edify one another and build each ot"her up. Rebuke when someone is falling in sin, but it needs to be something that is spirit driven not something that will just make you feel like a better christian or more mature christian to point out someone else weaknesses. I learned a long time ago to 'remove the log from my eye before pointing to the splinter in my brothers' (taken a little out of context! [​IMG]
     
    #11 Nicole, Sep 10, 2001
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