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How a Translator Chooses Words

Discussion in 'Bible Versions & Translations' started by John of Japan, Jan 6, 2011.

  1. John of Japan

    John of Japan Well-Known Member
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    You won't regret it. This is a great book!
     
  2. John of Japan

    John of Japan Well-Known Member
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    Running Down a Meaning

    Let’s say that in doing my first draft I run across a difficult word in Greek. The most difficult words are the hapax legomena, those words that occur only once in the NT. One of those words is “scourge” in John 2:15, where the Greek word is fragellion (phragellion). Is this a whip like a lion tamer uses in a circus? Is it like a first century cat-o-nine-tails, a vicious whip with nine lashes on it, each with a piece of metal or glass attached to it? Or something else entirely?

    First of all, I check my lexicons. Friberg simply has “whip, scourge, lash.” So I go to the biggie, my BAGD. It only has, “whip, lash,” but it does refer to Homer. I check my Liddell-Scott, which has “scourge.” I seldom use historical linguistics (etymology, word origins) to determine meaning, but since this is a hapax legomenon it is necessary. I try to check the Greek poet Homer’s usage through the Perseus database of classical Greek. It’s no help at all! But it does mention a Latin loan word from this word, flagellum, so I check my Latin dictionary and come up with “a whip, scourge; the thong of a javelin; a young sprout vine-shoot” (Cassell’s Latin Dictionary, p. 93). This is the word used by Jerome in the Latin NT for this Greek word. Very interesting. There is a vegetable connection in the Latin usage! (The Latin meaning is useful only insofar as it was current in the first century.)

    My next task is to check the Septuagint (LXX) and early church fathers on the off chance that BAGD missed something. I don’t usually bother with the later church fathers, because then you get a time gap of centuries AD like you do with classical Greek BC. I use the Bibloi 8 software package for the LXX, but I find nothing. I have the early church fathers in a software package called Theological Journal 2.0. (I know, it’s old but I still haven’t upgraded.) I’ll check that later since I am currently copying a Bible institute DVD on my DVD drive.

    Contemporary usage of this word has taught me little, so I go to the second most important source of knowledge, the context in which the word is used, John 2. There I learn that the scourge was made of small cords, Greek scoinion (sxoinion), which means “a rope or cord made of rushes” (BDAG, p. 797). Aha! And this word is also used in Acts 27:32 for ropes on a boat. So a phragellion is a small rope whip made of plants available to Christ on the scene. Then what does He use it for? For driving the animals out of the Temple, of course!

    My study is done. I need a Japanese word for a small rope whip made of plants used for driving animals. There is no such word, but at least I’m on the right track, and will be able to find an optimally equivalent word in Japanese with the help of Uncle Miya, my translation partner.
     
  3. Jim1999

    Jim1999 <img src =/Jim1999.jpg>

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    So, then we go to a KJV and get, "And when he had made a scourge (English for whip) of small cords, he drove them all out of the temple........."

    The English word and context gives us the whole meaning. If we search literature, we also learn that a scourge is the effects of a famine, ie: the scourge of Asia. It also refers to the person doing the punishment.

    Cheers,

    Jim
     
  4. John of Japan

    John of Japan Well-Known Member
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    Yes indeed. I believe you are saying here that this is British English. The word "scourge" sounds worse in American English, to me. I do love the KJV, but sometimes Americans forget that it was written in the British English of 1611. Just like you have to understand a NT Greek word in the context of the 1st century, you have to understand the KJV in the linguistic context of 17th century Britain.
     
  5. Jim1999

    Jim1999 <img src =/Jim1999.jpg>

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    When I first came to American soil, I was as lost as any non- English speaking person. The difference in meaning to similar words was unbelievable.

    I have heard some people who learned Greek in seminary, explain some meanings in modern classical Greek understanding. They might better have stuck with simple English.

    John, you must understand this, working in yet another language. Not only do we have the change in language, we also have cultural changes.

    Cheers,

    Jim
     
  6. John of Japan

    John of Japan Well-Known Member
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    Yes indeed. Languages change, culture factors in, cultures change language. I was just reading an article about the American subculture of "emo" crossing over into Eastern Europe. That will affect not only the culture of that country but the language.

    A language can change over a fairly short period of time. It's been fascinating watching the changes in the Japanese language since we came here almost 30 years ago. For just one example, young ladies now use vocabulary that was restricted to males when we came.
     
  7. Jim1999

    Jim1999 <img src =/Jim1999.jpg>

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    My brother-in-laws sister spent 12 years learning basic Chinese as a missionary....then she had to learn again when she got there.

    Cheers,

    Jim
     
  8. John of Japan

    John of Japan Well-Known Member
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    I'm completely sympathetic! I think immersion in the culture and people is essential to gain fluency in an Asian language, if not all languages. And that is no easy task.
     
  9. John of Japan

    John of Japan Well-Known Member
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    Choosing the Word in the Target Language

    After researching the word in the original Greek, my next task is to find the optimal equivalent in the target language. That is, I must discern not just what word is approximately the same meaning in Japanese, but which word is closest in nuance to the original Greek word.

    I know before starting that “Uncle Miya” Miyakawa will nix my word about 50% of the time. And that’s okay! He has an incredible vocabulary in both Japanese and English, and there is no way I can match his instincts for Japanese meaning, even though I’ve been speaking and studying the language for almost 30 years (unless you count my acquaintance with judo and karate vocabulary back in college). A translator working in what is a second language to him must at any cost have reliable partners who are native speakers of the target language, and I am most blessed with Uncle Miya.

    I start with several dictionaries: two Greek-Japanese lexicons and my excellent Microsoft dictionary software. It includes Japanese-English, English-Japanese and English-English dictionaries. During the process I may also consult the leading Japanese dictionary, the Daijiten, or my Japanese kanji dictionary. This last one is a Japanese dictionary of all the thousands of Chinese characters (kanji) used in Japanese with their Japanese meanings. I also have huge Japanese-English (the unreliable 2000 page Kenkyusha) and English-Japanese (the huge 2300 page Vaccari, by an Italian priest) dictionaries which I don’t consult much anymore. Specialty dictionaries include a Japanese dictionary of comparative word usage.

    Here I must say that dictionaries and lexicons in any language are only as good as their editors. They get you started, but they don’t get you there. The get the true meaning of a word you have to learn (1) how it is used by 21st century Japanese people and (2) the various contexts (immediate, general, the entire book) of the particular word in question. If a dictionary editor has not done his job in these two areas then the meanings he gives in his dictionary will lead you astray.
     
  10. Jim1999

    Jim1999 <img src =/Jim1999.jpg>

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    A very good lesson, John, for those who learn Greek and Hebrew in seminary and think interpretation of scripture is a cinch.

    Cheers,

    Jim
     
  11. Ruiz

    Ruiz New Member

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    I agree, these are great posts. Some people think that translating is easy. You are showing how difficult it is to just find one word that matches in another language, much less conveying the meaning of an entire sentence, grammar and all. I also respect that you are using someone whose native language is Japanese to help you. Even when translating the Bible into English, translators here have several people who help ensure the proper meaning is being conveyed. This is a very difficult process.

    Keep posting, I am enjoying your input, and I am encouraged by your thoughts.
     
  12. John of Japan

    John of Japan Well-Known Member
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    It takes hard work to get it right, especially when translating and interpreting in your second language.
     
  13. John of Japan

    John of Japan Well-Known Member
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    Thanks for the encouragement. I'm enjoying posting this thread, and I'm glad you're enjoying reading it.

    I wouldn't think of producing a Japanese NT without Japanese help. I have Uncle Miya as my partner for the second draft, after which I send it to my son, the up and coming Greek scholar who grew up in Japan and is thus fluent in Japanese, to check our work against the original. Then in other cities I have two Japanese editors and a missionary linguist for the final draft of each book.
     
  14. John of Japan

    John of Japan Well-Known Member
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    In extra difficult cases I may do some research in the area of contemporary usage on the Internet or other places in Japanese society. It is important in the great majority of cases to have a word that 21st century Japanese will understand easily.

    Having consulted the dictionaries I will choose a word in the target language based on:
    (1) The meaning in the original language I have come to from my study of the Greek.
    (2) The Greek-Japanese lexicons I have.
    (3) My own knowledge of the Japanese language after 30 years (come this May) of experience and study.
    (4) Common usage among Japanese churches, unless I want to go out on a limb and try something new.
    (5) Research I may do in 21st century Japanese.
    (6) Style considerations: is this word compatible with the norms of Japanese society? Is it a good fit for the literary style we are using?
    (7) Consulting other Japanese versions, in particular the Nagai Yaku, which is the only Japanese version available from the same Greek text.

    With this, my first draft of a particular rendering is done. The next task will be to take it to the 2nd draft committee, currently consisting of only Uncle Miya and myself as regulars at this time. (We’ve had anywhere from 2 to 5 come, and there are a couple of missionaries with open invitations who live a little ways away and can’t often make it.)
     
    #34 John of Japan, Jan 10, 2011
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 10, 2011
  15. John of Japan

    John of Japan Well-Known Member
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    The Second Draft

    I may later on do a thread about translation committees, so I’ll keep this section to semantics, not the workings of the committee.

    Working with Uncle Miya on the second draft of our NT translation is a truly humbling experience. I prided myself on my Japanese language ability before tackling a translation of the NT, but I must say now that I have a much lower opinion of my abilities! I may do okay in Japanese grammar, but that’s no big deal. The grammar of this language is simple. It’s the keigo (respect language), kanji (Chinese characters) and semantics that make this language hard.

    So, I always pick up Uncle Miya at his house for our second draft committee meeting at the church with trepidation. What am I going to be wrong on today? What words have I truly misunderstood? What nuances have I missed? The next few hours will tell. We will be working on the book of James—will my faith in my abilities outstrip my works by a good bit, as usual?

    Uncle Miya has looked through the file of the chapter we’re working on, and he hands me his memory stick with the file. I transfer the verses to my word processor, and Uncle Miya says, “Saa, tachiai.” That doesn’t help me. That’s what the beginning of a sumo match is called when the two behemoths crash into each other!

    Our main concerns in the second draft will be nuance and style. I always get a word somewhere in the neighborhood of an optimal equivalent, but about half the time I miss the mark. Uncle Miya will correct me on the following bases:
    (1) Is the word I’ve chosen too colloquial? This may be my biggest thorn in the flesh.
    (2) Have I missed the nuance? Does another word fit better in the context?
    (3) Have I gotten the Chinese characters wrong? This is not a big problem, but occasionally I miss. After all, there are thousands of those little insects running around on the pages of a Japanese book, each one different. Some of them take up to 20 or 30 strokes of the pen to write.

    For my part, I’ll ask Uncle Miya if the word he prefers is too classical (he loves classical Japanese) and if the average high school student would understand it. It will be an intense time.
     
  16. Jim1999

    Jim1999 <img src =/Jim1999.jpg>

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    John, I do fully understand. I had a dual pastorate in Quebec. One in English the other in French. The only French I had was typical Parisian French from school. I wrote out an entire sermon in French, preached the sermon, all seemed to go well. One parishioner approached me after the service and remarked, "You know, pastor, we hunderstand Henglish. " I knew I had a lot of work to do. They only spoke Parisian French in Quebec City!

    I then learned there were 7 types of French spoken in Canada. Learning the a, b, c's was only a beginning. Just like our word for baptism is used to-day in Greece by the clothes cleaners and dyers...It means to fully dye a garment.

    Cheers,

    Jim
     
  17. John of Japan

    John of Japan Well-Known Member
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    Thanks for sharing, Jim. You are one of the few on the BB who do understand what becoming fluent in a foreign language is like. Most Americans (and maybe Canadians except for French) are loath to put in the long and hard work it takes to learn a foreign language.

    To get to a professional level in Japanese it is necessary to go to a serious language school (not the local city government's free class or a semester or two in a college class) for a minimum of two years, full time. I took three hours of classes a day, then studied enough on homework, etc., to make it 30 to 35 hours a week--for two long years! (I must say here that I loved it--they were two of the best years of my life.) Then after graduation I continued to study regularly on my own for years, especially the Chinese characters.
     
  18. Jim1999

    Jim1999 <img src =/Jim1999.jpg>

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    I did study Greek and Hebrew, but you will never hear me comparing "what the Greek" word is in a discussion or in a sermon. I always thought it was meaningless to the average congregation. Now maybe it elevated their view of my intelligence, but I think I best do that in English. Now this is not because I haven't studied the languages, but rather, because I have.

    You are doing very well, and I do appreciate what you are teaching here. I do hope the younger folk pay mind.

    Cheers, and bless,

    Jim
     
  19. John of Japan

    John of Japan Well-Known Member
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    Well said, and I agree. :thumbs:

    Thanks for the encouragement!
     
  20. John of Japan

    John of Japan Well-Known Member
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    When we open the file of the chapter, complete with Uncle Miya’s corrections, he will have changes in red. Usually a verse will be one third to one half red. Happy am I when occasionally a verse is completely black, indicating I made no mistakes! But I have to admit that about once a chapter a verse is all red, meaning Uncle Miya has completely rejected my rendering. More humility—just what I need!

    We’ll look at Uncle Miya’s changes together. We’ll read the whole verse out loud, then compare it to my first draft version. When I spot a word change, our linguistic sumo match is on. I’ll ask why he used that word and he’ll explain its nuances. I’ll ask more questions and he’ll give examples of its usage in Japanese. Most of the time I’ll nod to his obviously superior knowledge of the semantics of his own language, and we’ll make the change.

    Sometimes, though, I’ll see that Uncle Miya has not understood the English word. He doesn’t know Greek, but simply works from the English Bible, and sometimes even that meaning escapes him, in spite of his extensive knowledge of our language. Uncle Miya doesn’t speak English that well, but he is a retired high school with an encyclopedic knowledge of the written language (English grammar and semantics), and has read many of the classics of English literature, from which he has been known to give lengthy quotes! However, sometimes he gets the English meaning wrong. Then he’ll say, “What does the Greek word mean?”

    In these cases I’ll bring up the definition of the Greek word from my Friberg Anlex lexicon. This lexicon is recent, having all the insights from the papyri, but it is concise enough that Uncle Miya can readily grasp the meaning. If I were to use my big BAGD lexicon the poor man would be lost, what with the references to the LXX, Josephus, Philo and the like. I may then add from my own knowledge and research to the definition given in the lexicon.

    After we’ve thoroughly discussed the English and Greek words, their usage, and the context, we’ll make our decision. Uncle Miya is humble, and recognizes that I’m in charge (though he’s about 15 years older), so he’ll say, “The decision is yours.” However, I’ll make my final decision about a word in Japanese with great regard for his wisdom and knowledge.
     
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