How can a person be right with an All Holy God?

Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by ReformedBaptist, Sep 28, 2007.

  1. ReformedBaptist

    ReformedBaptist
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 7, 2007
    Messages:
    4,894
    Likes Received:
    27
    The following is a presenation of the Gospel of Christ. It is aimed toward anyone who may think they are saved (I expect on these boads most call themselves Christians) but may not be. May the Lord bless the preaching of His Word.


    This is an all important question for us all, and must be asked if we are to truly love our fellowman. How can you be right before an All Holy God? Scripture shows us a God who is perfect beyond comprehension, altogether righteous, perfectly just and all good. Nothing that offends or is wicked or evil or wrong can stand before His Holy Presense. And it is certain that everyone who has ever lived will stand before Him and be judged.

    How will you stand in that Day, before such perfection, beauty, and holiness and be right before Him? How can we who know that according to His Law, or else according to our own conscience which often agrees with the Law of God, are found law-breakers, sinners, and transgressors before Him? Will our religion help us? The good things we have done in our life, will those things count?

    Think of any lawbreaker discovered beyond doubt to be guilty of some law, to appear before a judge and be aquitted on account of other good deeds he or she has done. Would not this be a great injustice? Imagine if it were a murderer of someone you dealy loved? Would not everything in you cry out against this? And should we, who have transgressed the Law of God be set at liberty apart from justice? By no means. It is written:

    "The LORD is slow to anger, and great in power, and will not at all acquit the wicked..." Nahum 1:3

    The religous person oftentimes trust in their traditions or religous duties to make them acceptable to God. This will not do either. The religous Jews of Jesus day trusted also in themselves that they were righteous. But what did the Lord say to them?

    "I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish." Luke 13:3
    And again, "I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins." John 8:24

    The condition the Bible describes mankind is in indeed hopelessly deperate. We are in such a condition as sinners that we are sinners both by nature and by volition. We both are sinners and we do sin. And this has so enslaved us to sin that we cannot in ourselves come out of it.

    Jesus said,"Jesus answered them, "Most assuredly, I say to you, whoever commits sin is a slave of sin." John 8:34 Speaking of Christians the Bible says, "And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins" Ephesians 2:1 And because we are in such a condition, the wrath of God abides upon us. "He who believes in the Son has everlasting life; and he who does not believe the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him." John 3:36

    It is indeed a desperate situation from which we cannot recover ourselves from. But what is impossible with men is possible with God. Jesus commands us to repent of our sins and believe on Him. Every blessing, grace, and power needed to deliver us is found in Christ. His promise, and God cannot lie, is that whoever sees the Son and believes in Him, that is, repents of their sin and puts their whole trust in Him, He will give the power to become the sons of God, as it is written:

    "But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them
    that believe on His Name. Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God." John 1:12-13.

    God's command is clear: Repent and believe the Gospel. The Father's testimony of the Son is clear: "This is My Beloved Son, hear Him."

    Today, if you hear His voice, do not harden your heart against His command. Today is the day of repentance. Jesus Christ bore in His Body the sins of the world. He was crucified bearing the penalty due to sinners. He rose again from the dead having conquered death and accomplishing salvation for all those who would believe in Him.

    In Him is forgiveness of sins. In Him are every spiritual blessing. In Him we have redemption. In Him we obtain an inheritance in His kingdom. In Him we are brought near to God by the His blood. In Him we are reconciled to God. In Him are hidden all the treasures of wisdom and knowledge of God. In Him we are complete.

    To God be the glory alone. Amen.
     
  2. BobRyan

    BobRyan
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2002
    Messages:
    30,837
    Likes Received:
    4

    Since you mention the FUTURE scenario of judgment and condition -- I will deal with the FUTURE as described in scripture.


    Matt 7 "Not everyone who SAYS Lord Lord will enter the kingdom of heaven ... but he who DOES the will of My Father"

    Romans 2 "Not the HEARERS of the law are just before God but the DOERS of the Law WILL BE justified"

    James 2 "Justified by works and NOT by faith alone".



    Had you specified the PAST "on what basis does the sinner come to God, find pardon and full acceptance" as your thread title appears to want to say -- I would have said --


    "For by GRACE are you saved through faith and that NOT of works lest anyone should boast" Eph 2.

    "Having BEEN JUSTIFIED we HAVE peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ" Romans 5.

    in Christ,

    Bob
     
    #2 BobRyan, Sep 28, 2007
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 28, 2007
  3. ReformedBaptist

    ReformedBaptist
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 7, 2007
    Messages:
    4,894
    Likes Received:
    27
    Bob,

    Am I understanding you correctly that you are teaching that our justification before God is not on faith alone but by our works also?
     
  4. BobRyan

    BobRyan
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2002
    Messages:
    30,837
    Likes Received:
    4
    Depends -- am I the author of James 2 or Romans 2?

    My point is that the basis for Justification past (the way a sinner finds acceptance with God, the New Birth, becoming SAVED) is by grace through faith -- apart from the works of the Law.

    But Romans 2 and James 2 are nevertheless 100% accurate about the basis for the future 2Cor 5:8-10 judgment also depicted in Daniel 7.

    And - I am not the author of those texts.

    (And of course - OSAS is false doctrine in case that was going to come up)

    in Christ,

    Bob
     
  5. ReformedBaptist

    ReformedBaptist
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 7, 2007
    Messages:
    4,894
    Likes Received:
    27
    I understand you believe you derive your doctrine from Scripture. I am asking really regarding your commentary on it, so that is why I asked "Are you teaching.."

    Let me get this strait: You believe Justification is by grace apart from works, but sanctification is by grace and works?
     
  6. FriendofSpurgeon

    FriendofSpurgeon
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 24, 2003
    Messages:
    3,052
    Likes Received:
    36
    RB -- I would suggest visiting the adventist web site. It gives a pretty good overview of their doctrine.
     
  7. ReformedBaptist

    ReformedBaptist
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 7, 2007
    Messages:
    4,894
    Likes Received:
    27
    Oh, thanks FOS. I didn't know Bob was in the adventist movement. Thanks.

    Can you confirm that for me Bob?
     
  8. charles_creech78

    charles_creech78
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Jun 23, 2007
    Messages:
    1,161
    Likes Received:
    0
    Heb 10:39 But wee are not of them who draw backe vnto perdition: but of them that beleeue, to the sauing of the soule.
    Eph 1:13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of trueth, the Gospel of your saluation: in whom also after that yee beleeued, yee were SEALED with that holy Spirit of promise, Eph 4:29 Let no corrupt communication proceede out of your mouth, but that which is good to the vse of edifying, that it may minister grace vnto the hearers.
    Eph 4:30 And grieue not the holy Spirit of God, whereby yee are SEALED vnto the day of redemption. If a man is saved he will not lose God. How can a man lose God when he is SEALED with the Holy Spirit. The fact is you are not trusting in God to keep you and why should he if you don't believe he can. Look at Isreal when they came from Egypt all of them did not believe God and some of them was destroyed because of that. You are calling God a lier when you say them that are born of God are not saved always. You are saying God does something half way. When God does a work in a man he does it forever. It is forever when God does something. There is nothing you can do to be saved. You can do all that you can to be saved and come short . For it is by faith through Grace are ye saved and not of works. It is truly the gift of God. But if you want to believe you can lose God or God can lose you then so be it but for me I will trust in the Lord. A Bob who saved you? Was it yourself or was it Jesus? 2Th 2:10 And with all deceiueablenesse of vnrighteousnesse, in them that perish: because they receiued not the loue of the trueth, that they might be saued.
     
    #8 charles_creech78, Sep 28, 2007
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 28, 2007
  9. ReformedBaptist

    ReformedBaptist
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 7, 2007
    Messages:
    4,894
    Likes Received:
    27
    What's up with the text-type there Charles?
     
  10. charles_creech78

    charles_creech78
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Jun 23, 2007
    Messages:
    1,161
    Likes Received:
    0
    KJV 1611 edition.text I can give you some Geneva. See that web site at the bottom of my page.
     
    #10 charles_creech78, Sep 28, 2007
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 28, 2007
  11. TCGreek

    TCGreek
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 12, 2006
    Messages:
    7,373
    Likes Received:
    0
    Unless we harmonize Paul and James we would have them contradicting each other.
     
  12. BobRyan

    BobRyan
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2002
    Messages:
    30,837
    Likes Received:
    4
    I just harmonized them - but more specifically as noted in the texts above the issue is not just harmonizing James and Paul it is ALSO harmonizing Paul and Paul -- Romans 2 with Romans 5:1 for example.
     
  13. BobRyan

    BobRyan
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2002
    Messages:
    30,837
    Likes Received:
    4
    No I believe that Sanctification is merely "daily justification" as Paul said in 1Cor 15 "I die daily".

    As Paul said in Col 2 "As you have RECEIVED Christ Jesus so WALK in him".

    But when Christ said "Good tree produces good fruit" He did not say "A good tree MIGHT at times produce good fruit -- maybe possibly" rather He stated a spiritual law about the source of good fruits and the fact that this shows the New Birth, the New Creation has having FIRST taken place. The James 2 context for justification is "external, objective, verifiable" -- as we see it in the judgment seen of Dan 7 where "Judgment is passed in favor of the saints" and as we see it illustrated in Romans 2 where FUTURE objective "discovery" is made based on the events of historic record. That kind of "justification" does not change the status of the soul. You are either saved or not saved -- that future objective legal justification is simply documented evidence of the same.

    The relationship between James 2 "You see then that a man is not justified by faith alone" and Romans 5 "HAVING BEEN justified by faith we HAVE peace with God" is that the James 2 concept of Justification is external demonstratable evidence of the tree having been ALREADY made a good tree. The New Birth having already taken place is revealed in the life. Just as Christ stated.

    But obviously that is not how one GETS the new birth.

    You mention the process of sanctification -- Paul said in 1Cor 9 "I buffet my body and make it my slave lest after preaching the gospel to others I myself should be disqualified" - that is sanctification but that is also by faith. One does not engage in future or current sanctification by pointing to the historic record of past good works.

    Rather to engage in current sanctification one must currently choose to "die daily" just as we did when we came to Christ in the first place. "As you have RECEIVED Christ Jesus so WALK in him".

    in Christ,

    Bob
     
    #13 BobRyan, Sep 29, 2007
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 29, 2007
  14. BobRyan

    BobRyan
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2002
    Messages:
    30,837
    Likes Received:
    4
    Matt 18 describes it as "Forgivenes revoked"

    Gal 5 describes it as "being severed from Christ, fallen from Christ".

    Romans 11 describes it as being "removed from the tree of Christ for unbelief"

    John 15 describes it as "being cut off from Christ and burned in the fire".

    (actually lots of examples of this).

    But that too is another topic.

    in Christ,

    Bob
     
  15. charles_creech78

    charles_creech78
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Jun 23, 2007
    Messages:
    1,161
    Likes Received:
    0
    Let us all believe in Christ so we can lose him or so he can lose us. Do you think you can be saved by yourself or keep yourself. I do not understand the fact that you can be born again and lose God. Or as some of you call it backsliding. Or as Christ calls it ye shall know them by there fruit. A good tree cannot bring for corrupt fruit and a bad tree cannot bring for good fruit. A tree is known by it fruit. So if you see corrupt fruit it is not of God. 1Jn 3:8 He that committeth sinne, is of the deuill, for the deuill sinneth from the beginning: for this purpose the Sonne of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the deuill.
    1Jn 3:9 Whosoeuer is borne of God, doth not commit sinne: for his seede remaineth in him, and he cannot sinne, because he is borne of God.
    1Jn 3:10 In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the deuill: whosoeuer doeth not righteousnesse, is not of God, neither hee that loueth not his brother. 1Jn 3:6 Whosoeuer abideth in him, sinneth not: whosoeuer sinneth, hath not seene him, neither knowen him. So how can this man that did this say he knew God when it said he does'nt. You are either of the devil or you are of God. Surely if you are born of God you will live forever.
     
  16. TCGreek

    TCGreek
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 12, 2006
    Messages:
    7,373
    Likes Received:
    0
    As the reformers were fond of saying, "We are justified by faith alone, but faith that justifies is never alone."
     
  17. BobRyan

    BobRyan
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2002
    Messages:
    30,837
    Likes Received:
    4
    Well said - Paul makes that case in Romans 2
     

Share This Page

Loading...