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How can the Arizona Immigration Law be racial profiling ?

Discussion in 'Political Debate & Discussion' started by targus, May 20, 2010.

  1. Thinkingstuff

    Thinkingstuff Active Member

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    Isn't that based on where you are at? for instance if its in arms length you can search it but if not you need a warrant?
     
  2. Thinkingstuff

    Thinkingstuff Active Member

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    So what you're basically saying if I'm in the wrong place at the wrong time looking like a mexican I'm SOL baby!!!!!!!!
     
  3. targus

    targus New Member

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    Please change your screen name.

    "Thinking" stuff is not appropriate.

    Under Arizona law the police are permitted to take "reasonable" steps to identify you.

    I know how much you hate the word "reasonable".

    Now, as a grown, professional, male, U.S. citizen, why would you be unable to provide identification?

    I assume that you drive and therefore have a driver's license.

    You should have a social security card.

    If you are a CPA you should have a license.

    Why would you be unable to produce any kind of ID.

    You have a wife and a home - is there no way of identifying yourself?

    How do you cash checks or use a credit card?

    How would you rent a car if needed?

    And most importantly - why do you keep saying absurd things like - "If I don't have ID will they immediately deport me?"
     
  4. Thinkingstuff

    Thinkingstuff Active Member

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    I have all sorts of Identification. But lets say I'm in a rush and thow on joggin shorts and a t-shirt and just forget my id since I'm only going to be out for about 20 minutes. It happens occasionally.
     
  5. Jason Garrett

    Jason Garrett New Member

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    If you are determined to not be the perp, and you don't have ID, the LEO can do a couple of things (depending on your local laws and the policies of that agency). Number one, every LEO in the country has the ability to simply get your name and birthdate, run you through NCIC or the state equivelent where you are at, and verify your status. Valid DL, valid State ID, or legal immigration status. Pretty much, if you are not listed in NCIC, you do not exist. It's at THAT point the LEO has Probably Cause that you might possibly be in the country illegally. According to Arizona law now, the LEO MUST arrest until positive identification and status can be made. That my friends is where the probable cause comes in. This frankly unbelievable myth that the liberal media, illegal advocates, and conspiracy mongors are perpetuating that someone LEO's will just simply go around accosting Mexicans for their "papers" is ludicrous and frankly insulting to LEO's everywhere. It would almost be laughable if it wasn't so pathetic.
     
  6. targus

    targus New Member

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    Then if you are stopped by the police because you meet the description of a suspect for a locally commited crime you simple tell the police that you live just a few minutes away and ask them to take you home so that you can get your ID.

    Or you ask the police to call your house to ask your wife to run over with your ID.

    None of this is rocket science.
     
  7. Jason Garrett

    Jason Garrett New Member

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    If you are determined to not be the perp, and you don't have ID, the LEO can do a couple of things (depending on your local laws and the policies of that agency). Number one, every LEO in the country has the ability to simply get your name and birthdate, run you through NCIC or the state equivelent where you are at, and verify your status. Valid DL, valid State ID, or legal immigration status. Pretty much, if you are not listed in NCIC by as little as your full name and birthday, you probably do not exist legally or you lied as to your identify. It's at THAT point the LEO has Probable Cause that you might possibly be in the country illegally. According to Arizona law now, the LEO MUST arrest until positive identification and status can be made by ICE to whom the LEO will turn that person over to. That's where the authority and responsibility of the local jurisdiction stops. That my friends is where the probable cause comes in. This frankly unbelievable myth that the liberal media, illegal advocates, and conspiracy mongors are perpetuating that some LEO's will just simply go around accosting Mexicans for their "papers" is ludicrous and frankly insulting to LEO's everywhere. It would almost be laughable if it wasn't so pathetic.
     
  8. Thinkingstuff

    Thinkingstuff Active Member

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    Then why are LEO's divided over it?
     
  9. rbell

    rbell Active Member

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    Thinkingstuff, I'm amazed at the progression of your posts. They used to be well-thought out and (though I disagreed with some) reasonable.

    Now, they are conspiratorial, paranoid, often erroneous, and quite frankly, bizarre.

    Look...if you're here illegally, and you end up being discovered--what are the authorities supposed to do...apologize to you for not getting you some temporary papers?

    Illegal is illegal. It's not a sick bird. It means you are breaking the law.

    Actions--illegal ones--have consequences. We don't need folks whining about how "unfair" something is, when they refuse to abide by the very clear rules in place.

    And it's nice having law enforcement represented in here...thanks, Jason. That should cut through some of the bologna.


    One other personal request from me--please be aware that some acronyms you use might contain profanity/vulgarity. Be sure you know what something means before posting it.
     
  10. Thinkingstuff

    Thinkingstuff Active Member

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    And they won't run me down with a horse and have three guys beat me with a batton because I happen to like the maryland basket ball team? They will actually walk with me to my house to get my ID?
     
  11. Thinkingstuff

    Thinkingstuff Active Member

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    Are you accusing me of being Illegal? I served this country most of my life. I served in two engagements and am decorated for both. I pay taxes all of my working life. And I'm engaged in my community. And you accuse me of being illegal. Go take a hike man.

    Its a little bit latter and I've calmed down. Some of the stuff I say is rational. Thought out. Other things are hyperbole to make a point about the discussion. I personally don't like attacks on liberties and its happened lately far to often and I see Arizona as a indicator of where things are going. The country is fragmented down the center. Most of the people are honest hard working americans just trying to live their lives. Mexican illegal immegrants are a problem but a problem we are also responsible for. Arizona is a republican state that hold to conservative ideas but lately these idea's seem to include passing almost any legislation that will deal with the illegal problem. To include if necissary limiting our freedom. I have reason to love freedom. Yet this is not a conservative value or a stict reading of the constitution which I hold as conservative value. This is we are good honest americans that need to kick the illegal buts out of the country even if that means loosing a little freedom. As conservatives we allowed the democrates to wing this thing off to make us look like Nazi's and here on this christian site I see more of the same. Its frustrating for me. I remember when I first got back from overseas and I went through JFK I felt great to be home. I was staying with some friends in SC and on my way to TN in a beat up old Voltswagon rabbit a LEO stopped me because I looked out of place. I wasn't speeding. But He used the opportunity to look through my car. I was young and didn't realize what was going on and wasn't fully aware of my rights to question the LEO. So I gave him permission. He of course didn't find anything but then I begun to wonder how free are we really?
     
    #51 Thinkingstuff, May 21, 2010
    Last edited by a moderator: May 21, 2010
  12. Jason Garrett

    Jason Garrett New Member

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    The vast majority of LEO's who are opposed to it simply don't have the resources to deal with this issue. However, many of them are making a political stand in this arena and are obviously liberally leaning.
     
  13. rbell

    rbell Active Member

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    We've gotten wires crossed. What I meant to say...:

    Sorry for the lazy English. What I meant to say was that anyone in that position...I really didn't mean to refer to you personally. I was speaking in generalities.
     
  14. tinytim

    tinytim <img src =/tim2.jpg>

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    Hence the problem.. .
    And the profiling...

    How many Latinos in Mexico that are legal will be asked time and time again for their papers?

    It is illegal to search indescrimately under the bill of rights.
    Just because someone "Looks" like others that are illegal, does not give the Arizona Gestapo the right to search them, or run background checks.

    This law goes against the very spirit of our Country.
    Privacy in Arizona has been flushed down the tubes.
     
  15. Jedi Knight

    Jedi Knight Well-Known Member
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    Good post! :thumbs:
     
  16. targus

    targus New Member

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    It's a good thing that this law expressly prohibits such behavior then isn't it?

    Apparently you aren't aware of what the law actually says.

    This isn't exactly breaking news.

    You have had weeks to learn the truth of the matter.

    Oh well - what can one do?
     
  17. billwald

    billwald New Member

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    How do you all define "race?"

    Please list all "races."
     
  18. targus

    targus New Member

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    I am surprised that you are asking in as much as you are the one who is constantly dividing people into "winners" and "loser" based on the color of their skin.

    I don't take anything you ever post with any seriousness.

    You'll have to find someone else to set up your next bizzare off topic post because I'm not willing to do it.
     
    #58 targus, May 21, 2010
    Last edited by a moderator: May 21, 2010
  19. NiteShift

    NiteShift New Member

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    Travel to any country in the world and you can be required to show that you are there legally. They may even run (gasp) background checks. We are back to square here, since you would agree that aliens are required to keep in their possession documentation, but you do not want anyone to ask to see it. Because they might ask the wrong person.

    I've been asked intrusive questions, and had cops look through my car, and I am not even close to being brown. That's part of the deal; we hire police to do that sort of thing so that we don't have to do it ourselves.
     
  20. Jason Garrett

    Jason Garrett New Member

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    Tiny Tim, NONE of the legal hispanics in this country will be asked "time and time again" for their papers. Please read previous posts of mine for information on exactly how this law is/will be implemented. Unfortunately for your, your comment leads me to believe you have simply believed the media and illegal activist hysteria about this bill instead of practically looking at what it says. Not your fault, it's just how things are these days. But again, look at my previous posts on this thread for the CORRECT information on this bill and not the propoganda and fear mongering that you are unwittingly putting out.
     
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