How do we as Modern Baptists relate to historic Baptist Theology

Discussion in '2005 Archive' started by El_Guero, Mar 16, 2005.

  1. El_Guero

    El_Guero
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    This thread is for Fundamental Baptists and the intent is for us to discuss how we can grow in view of the changes in Baptist Theology.
     
  2. El_Guero

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    For those of you that are Fundamental Baptists & participate in this forum:

    I would like to ask how we got to be "modern" Baptists. Or, like the title: "How do we as Modern Baptists relate to historic Baptist Theology"?

    The reason for my question is that in this forum I stated what I felt would be a VERY moderate statement. I felt that 50 years ago, this comment would have been almost liberal. But, I was challenged, because I was "wrong".

    In Christ
     
  3. Dr. Bob

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    List the "Changes" in Baptist Theology. I am scratching my head trying the think of any.

    Some are reverting back to a stronger theological position (more reformed in doctrine) and are shifting from the false fundamentalism back to the basics.

    And discarding the man-made mores that have assumed talmudic authority and have no biblical basis!

    I'm all for that!!
     
  4. El_Guero

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    Well I do not mind that Reformed thinkers now populate the landscape, they do tend to be conservative.

    Discarding man-made mores, can be fun at times. But, traditional interpretation of Scripture now needs to be "re-interpreted".

    I can enjoy different opinions, they make me think. But the different opinions used to be from other denominations.

    I have seen that some "Baptists" on the board, do not have as much in common with traditional Baptist distinctives as some Catholics that I have known. (I trus, we have immersion in common).

    Is this why we have had the conservative movement within the SBC? Were we worried about these new interpretations coming in?
     
  5. Scott J

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    If "re-interpretation" involves taking us back closer to what the Bible literally teaches on practice and belief then it is a completely worthwhile endeavor and greatly to be favored over "tradition".

    Some "Traditions" that we hold today arrive to us courtesy of a day when the state-church decided what the proper interpretation was and wrote it into national law. The Catholics did this and so did the Anglicans.

    Everything should be evaluated in the light of what God actually said- every new thing and every tradition.
     
  6. Scott J

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    I am IFB not SBC. But the way I understand it, it wasn't "new interpretations" so much as outright denial of biblical truths and principles.

    You and I have debated over the deacon-divorce thing but I hope we wouldn't differ over things that are much more clear like homosexual marriage/relationships, women pastors, abortion, etc. or biblical doctrines like the virgin birth, sinless Christ, literal death/burial/resurrection, etc.
     
  7. El_Guero

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    Scott,

    Forty years ago, Baptists disagreed on very narow issues. From what I am reading on this Board, some "Baptists" here sound more like Methodists than Baptist. This is not an attack upon Methodists and others, but this is a question as to why?

    And this question is posted in the Fundamental section, because I am of the opinion that they would be the least affected by the new theologies. I pray that those in this section are still Baptist.

    So where is this coming from?

    Do we have quite a few people posting that really are not Baptistic, but that they are lurking and just playing games with us? Or, do we have Baptists out there that really have little to do with us except the name "Baptist"?
     
  8. av1611jim

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    Wayne;
    Though I am very limited in my exposure to a variety of Baptists, I would make the following conclusion just from my years on this board.

    Conclusion;
    Baptists (in general) have made themselves a "god" out of individual liberty of the believer. Because of this, each man is "free" to interpret Scripture as he sees fit to do so. This, of course, leads to a plethera of different "stripes". A-mil, pre-mil, Calvin, Arminian, Millenial Exclusion, etc. You get the drift? If one "calls" himself a Baptist these days it seems he does so purely for identification with a "sect" which is known historically for "sticking to the Book" with little regard for what those "historical" doctrinal parameters might mean.
    Lack of study. Folks just like to have a "moniker" per se.

    But, then again, who am I? :confused:

    I am just another man trying to please the Lord as the Scriptures have revealed themselves to me. And THAT is the nutshell of the whole thing. It really is no different than days of old. You had "regular" Baptists, "Particular" Baptists, "Seperatists" Baptists, etc, ad nauseum. And that was a few hundred years ago. Not much changes, huh? "There is no new thing under the sun". And so it will be. I don't hold much hope in it ever changing for the better, quite frankly. [​IMG]
    In HIS service;
    Jim
     
  9. Mapipe

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    Here's a question for Dr. Bob:
    Our pastor just got back from a conference at your old alma mater and said that the college was too Baptistic. Could you explain what that means? We are IFB and I'm curious as to what he could have meant. I haven't had a chance to talk to him...he's a BJ person, so I'm thinking that if it isn't BJ or NBBC, to him it isn't all it should be.
     
  10. Squire Robertsson

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    Youve hit the nail on the head when you said
    As BJU is an interdenominational school, some of its graduates tend to view the Baptist distinctives as denominational peculiarities. Maranatha over the years has taken pride in being Maranatha Baptist Bible College. One time, Dr. Cedarholm undiplomaticly said
    Yes, it was hyperbolic. Well, one of the students had the courage to write a polite note to Dr. Bob, Jr. asking for his opinion on the quote. I won't quote the late Brother Jones here. But, suffice to say, one evening Dr. Cedarholm called all of us male dormatory students into Old Main for a meeting to defuse the situation.
     
  11. Logos1560

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    In reading some articles about Baptists in the 1800's in the 1881 BAPTIST ENCYCLOPAEDIA by William Cathcart, I noticed the ages when baptism
    was permitted. In one case, a person applied for church membership at age 13, and "the pastor and church thought him too young to make a profession of religion and advised him to wait six months."

    In another case, it was said that the person was "baptised at the early age of fourteen."

    I noticed a few other examples when baptism was permitted at age 14.

    I wonder what the Baptist pastors and churches of the 1800's would think of some Baptist churches today that will baptize those who are age 5 or 6 (perhaps even age 4).
     
  12. El_Guero

    El_Guero
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    Jim,

    What I am noticing is all of the methodist, pentecostal wanna be Baptists that have ABSOLUTELY no idea what Baptists have believed.

    I think we need to add a required course or two in Baptist History, distinctives, and theology ...

     
  13. Dr.Tim

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    If you are talking about the "priesthood of believers" when you say individual liberty of the believer.. i have to say that the SBC folks (and I was SBC, climbed up there, too)and the Fundamental Baptists both teach this doctrine and the problem I see is the Fundamental Baptists sometimes dont take enough "liberty" and the SBC folks take too much. When I was in seminary I almost dropped dead in theology class when the professor began asking us who believed in Trinity, eternal security, etc. One was an approved Foreign Mission Board missionary and he did not believe in the Trinity. A few were against eternal security, a few were five point TULIPers and we even had one who said he was going to change to Methodist. This.. in a class of 50 people..!!!
    The IFB sometimes give TOO MUCH authority to a pastor. One man who felt called to mission field invited me to meet with his pastor since I was in town for the mission conference. At the meeting the man asked the pastor about this and the pastor said he felt the man was "not ready". After studying the Mandarin language for six years and learning more about the Bible than most people I know.. how could he NOT be ready. He tithed, his family are all serving the Lord, they are surrendered. The pastor gave two or three RIDICULOUS reasons (how will you pastor on the mission field when you have not pastored at home? Are you sure your children (they were 6 and 9 at the time) are ready for this, i dont think so? and you still havent sold your house).

    The man dropped the idea, went to deaf camp that summer and felt convicted for dropping it, and I told him,, look,, if God puts a burden on your heart, dont let one pastor stop you from pursuing it. MOVE.

    But as far as ecumenical, i am not an ecumenical person.I have had some bad experiences trying to work alongside of my Assemblies of God and Pentecostal friends.. no.. I wouldnt want to join with the others if you mean stage a citywide revival.. no way.

    tim
     
  14. KPBAP

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    I think we need to add a required course or two in Baptist History, distinctives, and theology ...

    I agree, but when are you going to teach these topics? Most who attend Baptist churches ONLY attend Sunday morning services.

    To get ALL Baptists to agree on the same beliefs is unrealistic. Baptists are a different breed! Of course MANY in the SBC leaderhsip want every member to sign the BFM2K, as if signing a document means anything.
     
  15. El_Guero

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    And it doesn't help when we say that anyone walking down the aisle can now be a Baptist ... whether or not you sign a document, there just isn't much Baptist identity anymore.

    The problem is that we have accepted those that consider themselves conservative as they have fled the liberalism of their denominations. They come in and expect us to accept their "rediscovery" of biblical truths in THIER opinion. And even attracting radical conservatives that have fled their failures in their denoms, we are still in a negative growth slide.
     
  16. Dr. Bob

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    Maranatha BBC is unashamedly BAPTIST in its position in fundamentalism. Cannot imagine why a pastor who supports BJU thinking (ugh) would even attend a conference on BAPTIST fundamentalism (annually held at Maranatha).

    OF COURSE it would be Baptist. Duh.
     
  17. Dr.Tim

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    Well where do most BJU grads go to church...??? I think most are Baptist? Personally, after meeting several of them at camp, I dont think I would call BJU Baptist and if the BJU folks step outside of their school and go to any church that is labeled, of course they will find the distinctives that are true to that label. The school is interdenominational, it seems.. supposedly Methodist but I dont think the majority of BJU grads go to Methodist churches.
     
  18. El_Guero

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    Do we not have modern Baptists? Or, do modern Baptists not relate to historic Baptists?
     

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