How do we know?

Discussion in '2003 Archive' started by hsmom3, Jun 19, 2003.

  1. hsmom3

    hsmom3
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    How do we know what parts of the Bible are for us today and what is not? Like not wearing different kinds of material, not sitting wear a lady sat who is having her time of the month, etc, etc?? Why do we follow the Ten Commandments, but can pick and choose the other restrictions in the OT? Or is the Ten Commandments the only commands we obey in the OT?

    Thank you!
    hsmom3 [​IMG]
     
  2. I Am Blessed 24

    I Am Blessed 24
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    Jesus fulfilled the 'ceremonial' laws of the OT.

    A lot of the laws were written because of the problems with hygeine and diseases in those days which, for the most part, do not exist today.

    For instance; do women today hide in a tent once a month until they are clean? No. Because we have 'things' to use that they did not have back then.

    God gave us common sense. I guess that is why He did not feel that He had to spell every little thing out to us. (Unfortunately, those are the very things we fuss, pick, and argue about).

    [​IMG]
    Sue
     
  3. hsmom3

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    Thank you for your response, Sue. [​IMG] How do we know what things we are to use common sense on and what things are not? It blows my mind on some things. I have heard some say that because we have birth control now, the rules of morality are changed, because there is less risk of disease. The Bible commands "Thou Shalt Not Kill" but we have the "audacity" to disobey that rule with wars and in self-defense. (Yes, I know it's common sense. [​IMG] ) It says God hates divorce, but there are some that have a little common sense about it and allow it for a few very strict reasons and we have some that say NEVER to divorce, but it's ok to kill, IN CERTAIN circumstances. (PLEASE folks, let's not argue divorce again! ;) ) I know if we were to follow the Bible to the letter, we'd have to live similar to the Amish people.

    I thought Art had an excellent question about Rahab lying. When is it ok to lie??

    Thank you for insight and help. [​IMG]

    hsmom3 [​IMG]
     
  4. Headcoveredlady

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    I think if it is in the New Testament than it is for today. And the things like you listed are probably good for us but not neccessary. And certainly none of them are neccessary for salvation.
     
  5. Pastor Larry

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    Jesus put an end to the Law. There is no "part" of the Law. The Law existed as a whole and Jesus put an end to all of it for us. The Law was for the nation of Israel (Ex 20). It is not for the church. We are bound by the NT.
     
  6. Jailminister

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    This is a very good question. Here is wht I believe is true.

    There are 3 laws. Ceremonial, Civil, and Moral.

    The Ceremonial Law has passed away.

    The Civil Law is still here, but it changes and is adaptable to different societies.

    The Moral Law is still the same. It has never changed and never will.

    I hope that this will help.
     
  7. Pastor Larry

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    Jailminister,

    I wonder if you would be willing to show where the Bible makes these distinctions. These are often asserted, but I have never seen anywhere where the Bible makes them.

    Paul, to the contrary, said in Gal 5 that if you keep one part of the Law, you are under obligation to keep it all. James, in James 2, said if you offend in one point, you have broken it all. There seems no biblical basis for this distinction you have given.
     
  8. Charlotte Marcel

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    Jailminister, I agree with your thoughts on the subject.
     
  9. Lorelei

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    We are no longer under the old covenant of the law, we are under the new covenant of grace. We are freed from law, for Christ came and fulfilled the law because man could not do so. No where does the Bible tell us that Christ only freed us from some of the law.

    Now that someone has fulfilled what no man could do, we have something better. We no longer need the law, for we have what it was pointing us to all along.

    For those who say we are still under "some" of the law, I, like Pastor Larry, would like to see you back that up with scripture. I have found it no where in the Word of God.

    ~Lorelei
     
  10. Lorelei

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    So to answer your question I turn you to the scripture. The New Testament explains the New Covenant that we are now under. If you are a chrisitan then the Spirit of God lives in you, and you are told in the NT to walk by that Spirit. Reading and understanding the New Covenant as explained by the apostles after the indwelling of the HS will explain how we do this.

    So we read the Word to know what is and what is not pleasing to God and the Spirit within us leads us to obey. There are no set of "rules", for obedience comes out of allowing Christ to live in and through us, not out of our own feeble efforts of works.

    I hope this helps and I pray that as you grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ you discover the joy of our freedom in Christ as we submit to His Spirit each and every day!

    ~Lorelei

    PS. The Old Testament was a roadmap to the New and has much to reveal to us about God, His Son and the plan God has for our lives. There is much we can learn from reading it, but we can not apply old covenant laws to new covenant living. If you keep it within the context of what age we are living in you will find within it a tremendous treasure.
     
  11. Jailminister

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    Pastor Larry, You may not find an exact scripture, but the principal is there. Example, Jesus was critical of the pharisees for keeping the law yet He understood where they were coming from. They had gotten to legalistic. Jesus also told the woman caught in adulterery to go sin no more. So we must conclude that Jesus said the ceremonial law practice by the Hebrews had been completed in Him, yet the moral law was still to be observed. The Civil law is much easier to understand, because anybody can tell that civil laws have changed an adapted according to society.

    I hope this clears up my thoughts on this matter.
    Thanks,
     
  12. Lorelei

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    The law that faded away, was that law that was written on stone, the law God gave to Moses on the mountain that caused his face to shine. We know this law on stone was the 10 commandments, a moral law, not a ceremonial one.

    This law, was merely a shadow of things to come, it has now faded away and we are left with the Spirit, in which there is freedom!

    ~Lorelei
     
  13. Jailminister

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    Lorelei, I believe if you examine that a little closer, you will find that Jesus did not do away with the moral law, it just became more. In other words, Moral law is now much more than the 10 Commandments. They were the guidelines, but now Jesus outshines it. It is not gone, it is just improved.
     
  14. Bartholomew

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    Just to add another two points here:

    1. James says we are under the "law of liberty". What does this mean? How is it related to the Old Testament law? :confused:

    2. The Old Testament forbids bestiality and astrology; yet I do not know of any New Testament passages condemning these. Are they suddenly OK? :confused:
     
  15. Tim

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    Today we go by the Two commandments (Love for God and Love for man) upon which the Ten commandments hung. The Ten commandments were specifically given to Israel as was all the O.T. Law (no divisions).

    I agree with Pastor Larry and Lorelei. The O.T. Law has been completed fulfilled in Christ and superceded by the Law of Christ. It is an all-encompassing Law of the heart as the O.T. Law of the letter never could be.

    In Christ,

    Tim
     
  16. Gina B

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    I am thinking that what Jailminister said makes sense, but I'd like to ask him if he'd be so kind as to give a more in depth explanation along with some examples.
    Hsmom, I forget what I was going to say. LOL Except on the law to not kill, I seem to recall their being a difference in the terminology of that word and how we use it. If I remember right the way it is used was meant to come upon someone suddenly and/or lawlessly, as in shooting someone during a robbery or out of anger, vigilante justice, etc.. Putting someone to death or in an expected situation such as self-defense or war or an accident uses a different word, and there were even protective measures in place for one who accidentally took the life of another, a place they could escape to and be safe until they could be taken to law.
    I've possibly got that a bit muddled, but it's ok because it's the BB, someone with more knowledge is apt to come along and correct me within moments and that's a good thing. ;)
    Gina
     
  17. Tim

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    Gina,

    I'll not presume to be your corrector, but if the shoe fits...

    If God had three different kinds of O.T. Law--he did a very poor job of making that clear. There are laws of all kinds placed side-by-side throughout the books of the Law. And the N.T. often refers to the Law as a single unit.

    I think it was only theologians' so-called "common sense" that attempted to split the O.T. Law into three parts, and then have only the ceremonial Law fulfilled in Christ--leaving the other two parts for us to grapple with.

    I prefer to acknowledge Christ's fulfillment of the complete O.T. Law--so I can be in obedience in Him.

    In Christ,

    Tim
     
  18. dianetavegia

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    James 2:10 NKJV For whosoever shall keep the whole law and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.
     
  19. Dr. Bob

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    Good discussion. We are "free from the law"(oh happy condition) but that does not preclude us from following Civil Laws of the land in which we live, or universal Moral laws.

    But trying to keep the ceremonial laws (touch not, taste not, handle not) made lousy Jews and even worse Christians. :rolleyes:

    And yes, that means I agree with Jailminister! There's got to be a law against that! :eek:
     
  20. Word Traveler

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    Hi Guys, The law showed us our need for a Savior. Basically, because we couldn't adhere to the law! IMHO, the Ten Commandments are great guidelines for Christian obedience, but we are not bound by them, or any other law -- but we are freed by GRACE! This may sound simplistic, but as has already been stated, "Love God & Others (as yourselves) & Walk in the Spirit" and you won't have to worry about the lust of the flesh, or uncleanness. What's so amazing about grace? It freed us from the bonds of sin, and the grip of the law! Should we still be obedient? Yes. Are we still bound by Old Testament Jewish law? No. In Christ, WT
     

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