How do you explain these verses?

Sorry I am having a bad day. Excuse again I shouldn't of post the above image.

 

Brother Bob

I appreciated it. A little levity is good for all of us and I won't blame it on that "ole Esau man".

 

Are you a calvanist?

 

Not me.

 

Seems to me this answers the whole question of the election and that all the saved were not chosen before the foundation of the world.


Romans, chapter 11


"1": I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid. For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin.

"2": God hath not cast away his people which he foreknew. Wot ye not what the scripture saith of Elias? how he maketh intercession to God against Israel, saying,

"3": Lord, they have killed thy prophets, and digged down thine altars; and I am left alone, and they seek my life.

"4": But what saith the answer of God unto him? I have reserved to myself seven thousand men, who have not bowed the knee to the image of Baal.

"5": Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.

"6": And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then is it no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.

"7": What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded

"8": (According as it is written, God hath given them the spirit of slumber, eyes that they should not see, and ears that they should not hear unto this day.

"9": And David saith, Let their table be made a snare, and a trap, and a stumbling block, and a recompence unto them:

"10": Let their eyes be darkened, that they may not see, and bow down their back always.

"11": I say then, Have they stumbled that they should fall? God forbid: but rather through their fall salvation is come unto the Gentiles, for to provoke them to jealousy.

"12": Now if the fall of them be the riches of the world, and the diminishing of them the riches of the Gentiles; how much more their fullness?

"13": For I speak to you Gentiles, inasmuch as I am the apostle of the Gentiles, I magnify mine office:

"14": If by any means I may provoke to emulation them which are my flesh, and might save some of them.

"15": For if the casting away of them be the reconciling of the world, what shall the receiving of them be, but life from the dead?

"16": For if the firstfruit be holy, the lump is also holy: and if the root be holy, so are the branches.

"17": And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, wert graffed in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree;

"18": Boast not against the branches. But if thou boast, thou bearest not the root, but the root thee.

"19": Thou wilt say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be graffed in.

"20": Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear:

"21": For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.

"22": Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.

"23": And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be graffed in: for God is able to graff them in again.

"24": For if thou wert cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and wert graffed contrary to nature into a good olive tree: how much more shall these, which be the natural branches, be graffed into their own olive tree?

"25": For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fullness of the Gentiles be come in.

"26": And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:

"27": For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.

"28": As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the fathers' sakes.

"29": For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance.

"30": For as ye in times past have not believed God, yet have now obtained mercy through their unbelief:

"31": Even so have these also now not believed, that through your mercy they also may obtain mercy.

"32": For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all.

"33": O the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! how unsearchable are his judgments, and his ways past finding out!

"34": For who hath known the mind of the Lord? or who hath been his counseller?

"35": Or who hath first given to him, and it shall be recompensed unto him again?

"36": For of him, and through him, and to him, are all things: to whom be glory for ever. Amen.

So the Gentiles were not chosen before the foundation of the world but only after the fall of Israel.

 

Galatians 3:8 - And the Scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, preached the gospel beforehand to Abraham, saying, "In you shall all the nations be blessed."

So we see that the Gentiles were actually chosen before the founding of Israel, and not after the fall of Israel.

 

Frenchy:

"8": And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world .
Its what the word says.


Whatever:

"11": I say then, Have they stumbled that they should fall? God forbid: but rather through their fall salvation is come unto the Gentiles , for to provoke them to jealousy.

Its what the word says.

 

Frenchy and others:

Why the following scripture if God predestinated all these things. It don't make sense that God would already know all these things and cause them to happen but yet REPENTED?


Genesis 6


"1": And it came to pass, when men began to multiply on the face of the earth, and daughters were born unto them,

"2": That the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose.

"3": And the LORD said, My spirit shall not always strive with man, for that he also is flesh: yet his days shall be an hundred and twenty years.

"4": There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown.

"5": And GOD saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.

"6": And it repented the LORD that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart.
"7": And the LORD said, I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth; both man, and beast, and the creeping thing, and the fowls of the air; for it repenteth me that I have made them.

 

This is what Thomas Helwys said in the ORIGINAL Baptist Confession.

Helwys Confession (1611)
http://www.generalbaptist.net/modules/wfsection/print.php?articleid=7&PHPSESSID=016a9b24e5c5201d0f1ec75046da8284

To all the humble minded which love the truth in simplicity Grace and Peace.
We believe and confess: ...

That God before the foundation of the world hath predestinated that all that believe in him shall be saved, and all that believe not shall be damned. All which he knew before. And this is the election and reprobation spoken of in the Scriptures, concerning salvation, and condemnation, and not that God hath predestinated men to be wicked, and so to be damned, for God would have all men saved, and come to the knowledge of the truth, and would have no man to perish, but would have all men come to repentance, and wills not the death of him that dies. And therefore God is the of no mans condemnation, according to the saying of the Prophet, Hosea 13, Thy destruction O Israel, is of thy self, but thy help is of me.

That man is justified only by the righteousness of Christ, apprehended by faith, yet faith without works is dead.

That men may fall away from the grace of God, and from the truth, which they have received and acknowledged, after they have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, and have tasted of the good word of God, and of the powers of the world to come. And after they have escaped from the filthiness of the World, may be tangled again therein and overcome.

That a righteous man may forsake his righteousness and perish. And therefore let no man presume to think that because he has, or had one grace, therefore he shall always have grace. But let all men have assurance, that if they continue unto the end, they shall be saved: Let no man then presume; but let all work out their salvation with fear and trembling.

In other words:

1) The way to salvation (Jesus Christ) was predestined not individuals.

2) The quality of a Christian's life is important. It is possible to fall from grace. Only "if they continue unto the end, they shall be saved."

Mar 13:13 And ye shall be hated of all [men] for my name's sake: but he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.

Phl 2:12 Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.

 

I'm not going to get into a meaningless argument with you. Please address the scripture I posted.

 

Frenchy:
I believe you started the PM by apologizing to me and complimenting me that I was among those that did know the scriptures, but that people like Gina and Donna and others like them didn't know their Bibles. What does Old Time Singing have to do with the scriptures, except it was the original way of singing even in the Calvinist and still is here. There will be NO problem with me not pm you for anything. I was just wondering where you preach at? Also, when you don't have an intelligent answer people like you resort to being nasty.

 

You can assume whatever you like, it doesn't make you right. There's no denying election, but HOW one is elected. We are elected "in Christ". Period. This is Scripture, this is truth.
BTW, please refresh my memory on which verse says God "picked and chose" individuals for salvation.

Well, here's one...

 

If you've heard better debates from children, you should have no problem answering SAN's question. What do you do with this verse in your version of predestination?
"6": And it repented the LORD that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart.
"7": And the LORD said, I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth; both man, and beast, and the creeping thing, and the fowls of the air; for it repenteth me that I have made them.
If God predestined man to do what man did, why was the Lord grieved and sorry He made man, if He predestined them to do that?