How Do You Know?

Sorry guys, I hadn't noticed this thread had moved since my last post. I've been busy and not paying attention.

Let me clarify. I believe that belief comes first with repentance hard on its heels. I believe a clear picture of this is presented in Acts chapter 2 where we have Peter preaching to the crowd followed by "When the people heard this they were cut to the heart and asked 'what shall we do?'" Peter's reply then is "repent."

First belief, then hard on it's heels repentence.

The OP asked "How do you know you are really saved?" My first post answered that question. Either you believe the direct word that we are given or you don't. Whether you like it or not, our "knowledge" is all based on our choice to believe that what we consider scripture is indeed the words of the Creator of our universe.

(btw, I quoted Acts 16:31 and Paul didn't say anything in that passage about repentence. Why don't you go ask him the same question you've just asked me?)

 

The question asked in this thread is very important to me. I am a easy believeusm person. I believe what God is trying to give way churches are charging for in many different ways. The chargeing has to do with the adherence to doctrine and accepting discipline.
When it comes to repentance all who will call on the Lord Jesus Christ for their salvation have by that fact repented. What did they repent of? They repented of their unbelief in the Lord Jesus Christ.
But back to the question, how can one be sure of salvation? When the Lord showed me the answer to this question those accepting the Lord Jesus Christ from my message immediately went from five to 10% to 80 to 90% of those I witnessed to. Here's the way to be certain of your salvation or any other person salvation. You simply believe the word of God where it clearly states(Romans 10:13) (Acts 2:21) "whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved". Have you called? Then certainly you are saved else God is a liar. Have you in prayer heard another person call, if so, you can be certain of that person's salvation.
I'm just a street preacher and I witness in public parks, roadside parks, faires and other gatherings. I hear between 500 and 750 people call him and name the Lord Jesus Christ for their salvation every year!!!
Many of these people go churches and announce their salvation I have yet to see a church turn one away. I know of a few who have become soul winners in the very churches they attend.

 

Just from a quick scan of 1 John (KJV, sorry I am a KJSP)

Keep God's Word

1Jn 1:6 If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth:
1Jn 1:7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.

1Jn 2:3 And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.
1Jn 2:4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

1Jn 2:29 If ye know that he is righteous, ye know that every one that doeth righteousness is born of him.

1Jn 3:24 And he that keepeth his commandments dwelleth in him, and he in him. And hereby we know that he abideth in us, by the Spirit which he hath given us.

1Jn 5:18 We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not.
1Jn 5:19 And we know that we are of God, and the whole world lieth in wickedness.

Repentant Heart
1Jn 1:9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
1Jn 1:10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.

Love for One Another
1Jn 2:9 He that saith he is in the light, and hateth his brother, is in darkness even until now.
1Jn 2:10 He that loveth his brother abideth in the light, and there is none occasion of stumbling in him.
1Jn 2:11 But he that hateth his brother is in darkness, and walketh in darkness, and knoweth not whither he goeth, because that darkness hath blinded his eyes.

1Jn 3:14 We know that we have passed from death unto life, because we love the brethren. He that loveth not his brother abideth in death.
1Jn 3:15 Whosoever hateth his brother is a murderer: and ye know that no murderer hath eternal life abiding in him.

1Jn 4:7 Beloved, let us love one another: for love is of God; and every one that loveth is born of God, and knoweth God.

1Jn 4:20 If a man say, I love God, and hateth his brother, he is a liar: for he that loveth not his brother whom he hath seen, how can he love God whom he hath not seen?


The Holy Spirit's Presence
1Jn 4:13 Hereby know we that we dwell in him, and he in us, because he hath given us of his Spirit.
1Jn 4:15 Whosoever shall confess that Jesus is the Son of God, God dwelleth in him, and he in God.

1Jn 5:10 He that believeth on the Son of God hath the witness in himself: he that believeth not God hath made him a liar; because he believeth not the record that God gave of his Son.

Disregard for the World

1Jn 2:15 Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him.

Someone else already quoted Christ when he said we will be know by our love for one another. Also a tree is know by it's friut. I am sure there are many more.

Great question. Is what we teach really what the Gospel says? I know Christ said we must be "Born Again". Other verses say we must believe. Others say to "Confess with thy mouth and believe in thou heart". Peter said it involves repentance and Baptism.

So it sounds like it takes belief in Christ, Confessing him as Lord, repentance of sins, and baptism in the Spirit (not water, not speaking in tounges).

I am wanting to get into a study of the conversion of all new testament saints this winter just to verify my first thoughts. Do you think that the salvation of the Thief at the cross would apply as a Church saint or fall under salvation before the onset of the Church? Is there any difference? My first thoughts are they are the same.

I would not. I would give them scritures regarding salvation and those I quoted from 1 John and let them search it out themselves.

See above, however if someone who had led a Godly life with a great witness was suffering from Alzhiemer's or a similar ailment I might have to rethink this.

Absolutely. "But Lord didn't we cast out deamons and work many Miracles in your name?.

"Depart from me I never knew you."

The think I love about this verse is that the Lord never denied the works or miracles. Makes you think...

Preach the Gospel and pray. Only God can penetrate the sinful heart.

OK, here I have a question, I do not want to highjack the thread and it has probably been discussed many times so if that's the case just ignore this, or post me a link to the discussion. As my profile states I am a Free Will Baptist which places me somewhere between a Cavanist and an Ariminian. But if one believes predestination then why be concerned over reaching someone? Not trying to argue or change anyone's theology, just wondering. It's a question I've had every since I was introduced to predestination.

 

the gospelgeek,

If you draw two straight lines,one above the other,and label one God's actions and the lower one, man's response. Then list such things as predestination, election, grace, faith etc on the upper line, then list man's response on the lower line. This way we sort out exactly where God acts as a first cause, and man responds to those actions under God's permissive will.........that is free will....always under God's sovereignty.

This is not even violating your "free will" thinking.

Cheers,

Jim

 

I think I understand your answer, but not sure I agree with my understanding. Are you saying that you are concerned and witness because god predestined you to do so? Like I said, I do not want to highjack this thread, it is too good of a subect and it is not an argument about calvanism. Maybe I will start another thread someday and "y'all can teach this Hillbilly a thing or two" about the doctrine.

 

The Gospel Greek raises an interesting question. If pure predestination is a fact why are we wasting our time witnessing? And here is at least one answer, correct or not, since we (you and I) have no way of knowing who is predestined to be saved we just present the Gospel message to all who will listen. When you present the Gospel message to someone who is predestined to be saved that he will accept, when you present the Gospel to the person who is not predestined to be saved that they will refuse. So based on this line of thinking, a person who is out witnessing(winning souls) is merely hastening the return of the Lord Jesus Christ.

 

Here is the answer to the question, if God has predestined some to salvation, why witness? They're going to be saved, anyway, regardless.

1. We do not have to understand it, we simply have to be obedient. Jesus commanded us to make disciples, baptize them and teach them.

2. The elect are not saved independently of the gospel. Paul made it clear that God is pleased to save through the foolishness of preaching.

3. In almost every instance in the NT, conversions take place as the result of the preaching and teaching of the gospel.

4. We do not know who the elect are until they are saved. That is why we preach to any and all who will listen.

5. The message is not, "if God has revealed to you that you are one of the elect, declare it publicly." The message is, "God commands you to repent," and "believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you will be saved."

One may say, well, if God has elected some to salvation, but others, how can your call for all to repent be sincere? Answer: Paul, in Acts 17:30, said God "now commanded ALL men everywhere to repent."

If Paul's call was sincere, so is ours.

 

But if the predestined will believe anyway then why waste the time and resources? It does not change anything. I can sit home, get fat and lazy and accomplish the same. I'm sure my understanding flawed, but let's discuss that later.

I'm more interested in the salvation topic. Do we teach and preach it properly? Were the Old testament Saints granted Righteousness through the same means as New Testament Saints(faith). Where do works come in, if at all? What does 1 John 5:18 mean? Does it really mean that if I am born again then I never sin?

 

The question becomes what are people presenting as the "gospel message".

Some present the "gospel message" as "believe these facts about Jesus and then repeat after me the following prayer.........I proclaim you saved and are certain you cannot loose your salvation no matter what you do."

You said:

You make adherence to sound doctrine and accepting church discipline the same as "charging for the gospel".

The Apostle Paul (and others) often spoke of adhering to sound doctrine. Jesus warned of false prophets that would lead many astray down the wide way of destruction. Jesus gave us the guidelines for adminstering church discipline.

Repentance means more than repenting from unbelief. It means repenting of sin (changing your mind about sin) and turning toward Jesus in faith (changing your passion about Jesus). Many, it seems, will give a "mental assent" to the facts about Jesus without any changing of the mind about sin and the world. You know them by their fruit.

Assurance of salvation, in scripture, is never referred to in the terms you have used. When speaking of assurance, we are never directed to look backward to a prayer.

We are always told to examine how we are living your life currently. Are you living a transformed life? Is there evidence of the indwelling Spirit? Is there evidence of faith in Christ. Is there evidence of Spiritual gifts? Is there evidence of the fruit of the Spirit?

You have said you are an "easy believism" kind of person. If you are conseling people to ask themselves if they "said a prayer", and then declaring them to be saved, you are going beyond the full council of God's Word and in danger of giving someone a false sense of assurance of their salvation.

peace to youraying:

 

To canadyjd and thegospelgeek:
I have carefully read your criticisms and I believe them to be correct from your point of view.
Something else about me that I'm sure you would strongly object to is the fact that many years ago I was given the gift of tongues in the form of what has come to be known in Baptist circles as "a private prayer language".
And let me say one thing more, all salvation, all assurances of salvation, and all knowledge about salvation is brought about by the Holy Spirit. And so you can see that any success that you or I have in helping someone to find God has to be directed by the Holy Spirit.

 

Well, I don't really know what that is suppose to mean. I only want my views to be correct from a biblical point of view.

My opinion, your opinion, and anyone's else's opinion is worthless if it cannot be supported by scripture in context.

How is this relevant to the discussion? BTW, please don't assume to know what I will "stongly object to".

You are simply wrong, IMHO, that "all assurances of salvation....is brought about by the Holy Spirit." We have a strong tendency to deception. We decieve ourselves, or allow others to decieve us.

There are many cults, too numerous to mention here, that have led their members into a fiery hell; each with full assurance they were saved prior to their deaths.

Jesus said there will be many on the day of judgment that will say "lord, lord" and He will say "depart from Me, I never knew you".

Until that moment, they have decieved themselves (or have been decieved by others) into believing they are saved. They will have a false assurance of their salvation.

The best thing you and I can remember is that we cannot look into the hearts of people to see if Holy Spirit dwells there. The only thing we can do, in answering questions about assurance, is to point to what God has revealed in His Word on this issue.

God never directed His people to look back at a prayer (as you have stated), but to examine themselves in the present as to how they are living their lives, whether they have faith in Jesus, whether Holy Spirit testifies with their spirit that they are children of God and so on.

peace to youraying:

 

The testimony of the Holy Spirit in my own heart (Rom 8:16).

 

...hadn't realized that I had made any criticisms. I've only posted some scripture and asked some questions.

Don't know that I would object. I have never spoke in "tounges' nor do I believe they are biblical. However I do have some friends that do believe they are, and other friends who "speak in tounges". As far as I can tell their lives are a testament to Christ and his salvation. ... But all of this is for another topic.

Brought about by the Holy Spirit, but can be witnessed by all, wouldn't you agree.

Love and God Bless
TheGospelGeek

 

To me it seems that first when speaking to someone you just ask them if and how they know they are going to heaven then assuming they give a reasonable answer you point them to Romans 10:9
Then they will either respond positively, wanting more info, negatively or just say something like thanks I will consider it (you can then contact later). If a positive reaction is expressed then perhaps you can mention what I call the other 'Three Big Deals'.
1. Genesis 1:1 In the begining God ...
2. Luke 2:11 A Savior has been born...
3. Revelation 22:17 Come ...
Then you know what to do next Pray for them or with them.
If this is a series of sermons then you could ask any interested to come forward or contact you following the service or come next week to hear more on these Big Deals of the Bible.