That someone is "elect"? I've puzzled over this for a while. Well, ever since a friend of mine visited a very sweet Reformed congregation as was told that she was elect by one of the elders. Notice, this isn't an insult against that congregation. Its full of people I believe are my siblings in Christ despite our differences in doctrine/theology. In my nonCal/nonArm version of theology (we'll called it MKism and I'll make it up as I go along, prooftexting all the way ), I find that I am to recognize other Christians by the Fruits of the Spirit that they display. You know, love, joy, peace and all that. Now if I work backward from that display I suppose I could legitimately tell someone who's fruit is readily identifiable that they were "elect". But what happens if their fruit is green or still in the bud stage? What happens if that person has no fruit at all or hasn't believed yet? IF we can't know if one another is elect, why bother worrying about whether or not people are "elected unto salvation" or if they are free to believe or not as they choose? What difference will it make to the end products: A Christian standing before the throne, that they chose to believe rather than being elected to believe? Or a nonChristian standing before the gates of Hell, that they were elected to hell rather than having made the choice by their own actions? This is the very center of predestination to me. If God says that man has no excuse, then He must have given them a reason not to have an excuse. This is that reason: 1Jn 2:1 My little children, these things write I unto you that ye may not sin. And if any man sin, we have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous: 1Jn 2:2 and he is the propitiation for our sins; and not for ours only, but also for the whole world. You may not name call in this thread! Play nice!