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Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by Yeshua1, Dec 18, 2012.
how /what did jesus self limit when he came to earth?
He probably didn't limit his spelling and grammar. :laugh:
Jesus gave up his omnipresence, for one thing.
He also veiled his divinity to some extent by making himself subject to human needs, such as sleep and food.
There is a lot of irony in the kenosis passage. He emptied himself by taking on humanity (this is emphasized by stating it 3 different ways all in a row). His emptying is not a limiting of his deity or even veiling his deity... although that is often proffered. The text says that his emptying was his humility to take on humanity, to become obedient to death, even crucifixion. The ultimate form of humility is that Jesus will never be simply "in the form of God" (or very nature God) but is forever the God-man. He will never stop being the God-man... that is the humility of Jesus which we are to emulate.
If we let the text explain the kenosis... it is pretty simple. It is when we start postulating systematic theology upon the text that we get strange ideas. Thus I would conclude that the OP is setting up a question that the text doesn't address. It is not that Jesus is limited. When we think in those terms, we come away with veiled concepts or diminished deity heresies. Jesus wasn't limited. He added on humanity--simple.
Also, what would veiling deity have anything to do with humility??? And who says Jesus stopped being omnipresent or veiled it. There are some passages that may imply it (some being textual variants as well).
who, though he was in the form of God,
did not regard equality with God
as something to be exploited,
but emptied himself,
taking the form of a slave,
being born in human likeness.
And being found in human form,
he humbled himself
and became obedient to the point of death—
even death on a cross.
That's a lot of self limiting and emptying right there.
Wasn't it that by becoming human, he no longer was exercising the attriubutes of god such as being everywhere, having all knlwegde etc? As he grew up in wisdom and understanding as we would do?
Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ (Anointed) Jesus:
But while he thought on these things, behold, the angel of the Lord appeared unto him in a dream, saying, Joseph, thou son of David, fear not to take unto thee Mary thy wife: for that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Ghost. And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins.
for that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Ghost: Translation from Greek interlinear Scripture4all.org
for in her being generated out of spirit is HOLY
Did Mary give birth to a human son generated in her by the living God? The Father John 4:23,24 Greek interlinear Scripture4all.org: him spirit the God
Matt 16:16 And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.
I am asking was it the Living God who self emptied through the virgin Mary by a human son begotten by the Living God whom they called Jesus and was Anointed by God his Father OR was Jesus who was born of Mary the virgin some form of a preexisting God the Son?
Did the Living God beget a human Son or did he not?
Was the glory he had with the Father before the world began really the glory of the Father from whom he had been begotten? Why did Jesus pray for that glory to be given to him? When did he loose it? What is that glory? Personally I believe it to be eternal life. In 1 Peter 1:21-25 we read of God the Father giving him glory that appears to have come at his resurrection which carries with it, of not being corruptible compared to a flower which withers away. The last Adam, what does that mean?
1 Tim 2:5 For one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;
Is he mediator as being God or as bring man the Son of God?
Perhaps, but the text doesn't say that. You are only gaining that from inference, and very blurry inference I'd say.
Where in Scripture does it say that the 2nd person of the Trinity will exist eternally in the form of man, or the God-man if you prefer?
Wedo know from the text though that jesus was physical fully human, so that he chose to NOT act out as God, but relied upon fellowship with the father and emopowered by the Holy Spirit as we do today also!
He was willing to NOT know while on earth all things, to experince limitations of the Human flesh etc!
I don't see how you can say the kenosis passages means "he chose to NOT act out as God" b/c apparently that is exactly what he did being in very nature God. The rest of the stuff came from outside of the kenosis passage and therefore is irrelevant to this text in question. If you are going to ask what Jesus emptied himself of, then you should stay in the context which mentions the emptying instead of inferring from many other places. According to the kenosis, Jesus emptied himself by taking or adding something. That is as clear as we can get. Perhaps we should stop asking and answering questions the Bible never posed nor answered.
I don't think it does, however it does say this:
In many parts, and many ways, God of old having spoken to the fathers in the prophets, in these last days did speak to us in a Son, whom He appointed heir of all things, through whom also He did make the ages; Hebrews 1:1,2 YLT
I'd say that it is the logical conclusion based on a bodily resurrection. But I'll grant the kenosis passage does not state this in so many words. But in terms of redemption, union, and resurrection (being like him); these things are affected if Jesus ceases to be human. How can the man Christ Jesus continually mediate on our behalf if he is no longer the man Christ Jesus? How can he be our kinsman redeemer if he ceases to be our kinsman? How can we be united with him in his death AND in his resurrection if he ceases to be human in his resurrection (or after)?
So I would argue that this was implied in the kenosis passage in that taking on the nature of a servant was a permanent thing.
Isn't that the Church historocal position, that God became Flesh and was born as jesus, and that he will forever be Jesus, with BIOTH natures of Deity/Humanity forever more co existing within him? Alway distinct, not co mingling, always 100 % God and 100% man?