How does God spank us?

Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by Emily25069, Aug 16, 2007.

  1. Emily25069

    Emily25069
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    Hebrews 12


    5And ye have forgotten the exhortation which speaketh unto you as unto children, My son, despise not thou the chastening of the Lord, nor faint when thou art rebuked of him:
    6For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth.
    7If ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chasteneth not? 8But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then are ye bastards, and not sons.


    I have heard this preached recently, that if the Lord does not chastise us, then the simple answer is that we are not sons.

    I sat back and thought.. I dont feel as though I have been chastised or "spanked", even though I know that I have done wrong.

    WHat is meant by this passage? Any help?
     
  2. tinytim

    tinytim
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    What happens when you sin?
    Do you feel the Holy Spirit chastising you, and telling you that you just sinned?

    If so... that is one way.
    If not... something is wrong.
     
  3. Rufus_1611

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    This is a very good question. Sorry I don't have time for a better response but I would desire to establish that I do not believe that God "spanks" nor does he encourage that we do so.

    SPANK, v.t. To strike with the open hand; to slap (Source: Webster's 1828)​

    The method He most oft describes is the rod...

    "Withhold not correction from the child: for if thou beatest him with the rod, he shall not die." - Proverbs 23:13

    "Thou shalt beat him with the rod, and shalt deliver his soul from hell." - Proverbs 23:14

    "A whip for the horse, a bridle for the ass, and a rod for the fool's back." - Proverbs 26:3
    "The rod and reproof give wisdom: but a child left to himself bringeth his mother to shame." - Proverbs 29:15
    "And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God." - Revelation 19:15
     
  4. TCGreek

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    Emily (if you don't mind me leaving off the #s),

    1. Before the writer begins to quote from the OT, he says "You have not yet resisted to the point of blood, agonizing against sin, and you have forgotted the encouragement, which speaks to you as to sons" (vv.4, 5).

    2. These Christians, on the one hand, were being persecuted because of their faith as they agonized against sin; but on the other hand, God used the persecution against his children as a means of discipline to yield fruits of righteousness (v.11).
     
  5. jshurley04

    jshurley04
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    God's Spankin'

    It all depends upon the person and personality. Some people need the good solid head thump or but swat. While others just need a stern look or simple confrontation from the Holy Spirit. I would not worry too much about it. I sounds as if you are sensitive to the Holy Spirit. Just as with children, we don't always have to spank and God does not always have to spank us. The biblical interpretation is that of discipline and not specifically spanking. Although spanking is an option.
     
  6. Mr.M

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    Your problem appears to be your limited application of the concept of divine discipline. While God's Word uses anthropic language (describing an attribute or action of God with in human terms...i.e. the eyes of the Lord or the Lord repented) , God is far removed from acting with human motives or with human goals in mind. Humans obviously discipline but their best methods and motives are still far removed from God's.

    God cannot be less than divine or perfect in his work because he is nothing less. Secondly, pain familiar with human punishment is not an ideal or good measure for comparison. There might be some similarities in YOUR reactions to both human and divine discipline but that is where the similarities end unless one only looks at the surface and skips a theological investigation of which the are obligated. But then Bible doctrine is boring and needless right? Of course, that is why God commands use to "be ye transformed by"...singing...no by praying...no by being sweet...no wait, ah yes by "the renewing of our minds" which only comes through Bible doctrine taken in by the believer (the sermon side dish is no charge :saint: :smilewinkgrin: )

    So trying to determine if God has chastised you through paralleling it with human discipline can and does often result in confusion. Remember again and always keep in mind that though God communicates to us using anthropic language he does not act or think as a human. It is sad to think that there are so many alleged Pastors who have such limited capacity in communicating the discipline of God in the lives of believers that unless some obviously unpleasant form of suffering enters into a person's life that they should consider whether they have genuinely been disciplined via God. How short-sighted, inadequate and robbery of another regarding their understanding of the work of God.

    While the human condition often requires instant and rapid adjustment to human discipline, our condition before God does not. Meaning, God is far more patient and long suffering. He has the capacity for such, we do not. This is not to say on some occasions we aren't in a situation that calls for a rapid adjustment to divine justice, but rarely. Generally God's chastisement is a process. Hence, we do not always feel the sting of the scourge because it is over time and produces far less pain, yet correction indeed.

    Many people can relate to something dawning in their mind in connection with something from some time ago, months, years or decades and something apparently becomes suddenly clear when in reality it wasn't suddenly but the product of divine discipline over time. They look back with embarrassment on the foolish idea or practice in their Christian life that was based in arrogance, immaturity or self-righteousness. There was no sudden calamity but God's discipline was a process and though the light finally comes on it wasn't from one enormous scourging but bit by bit God worked. If we received all of the discipline we needed at one or two times for each lesson we were to learn in life none of us could endure it even once.

    If you are a believer you are always under either the negative or positive discipline of God. Remember as well, not all discipline is corrective in the sense of having to induce suffering to bring you back on track and away from arrogance and rebellion. Some discipline is suffering for blessing, to accelerate your faith and increase your spiritual growth. That is discipline as well.
     
    #6 Mr.M, Aug 17, 2007
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 17, 2007
  7. jessewsellers

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    God's "Spanking"

    I see that some have taken exception to your use of the term "spank." However, it is a perfectly good word to use in the way you use it, which I take to be metaphorically, in the sense of discipline. Note that I said "discipline," not "punishment." God does not punish believers--Christ has already taken all of our punishment on His cross.

    Because we are His children, God does choose to discipline us. And He does so in any number of ways. I have personally experienced the discipline of God, and I hope that everyone else on this forum has experienced it as well. The issue is not HOW He disciplines us, but why. And the answer to that is simple: to conform us to the image of His Son.

    The story is told that someone once asked Michelangelo how he sculpted an angel from a shapeless piece of stone. "It's simple," Michelangelo replied. "I just chip away everything that is not the angel."

    In the same way, the Lord "chips away" everything in our lives that is not like Christ. This is a painful process oftentimes. And the more shapeless stone we have, the more chipping is required. The more chipping, the more pain, for unlike stone, we feel, we hurt, and we question. It is part of God's discipline.

    I would encourage anyone who is undergoing the Lord's "spanking" (to revert to your metaphor) to focus upon what He is trying to do in our lives more than trying to get out of our circumstance.

    For example, I have recently undergone some physical difficulties that involved my being hospitalized and immobile. At first, my constant prayer was, "Lord, take this away from me."

    But the more I prayed and sought Him, the more I sensed Him saying to me, "Trust me. Even if I don't take this away from you, will you still trust Me? Do you desire ME more than your healing?" I had to come to a point where I said to Him, "Father, I desire to know you better more than I desire this adversity removed from my life." And since then, I have experienced a turning point, and I am gradually experiencing physical healing. But even if I have a relapse, I am much more content today, because I know Him better, I have a more intimate walk with Him.

    There were some other issues that I had to deal with between me and the Father as well, and this time of healing gave me the time I needed to deal with them, take them before Him, and receive His perspective on them. This is all part of His discipline--His "spanking."
     
  8. Jkdbuck76

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    One of our deacons left his wife and two kids for another woman.
    Then when he lost his job, she dumped him. Yep. The gravy train was over.

    Left his wife for another woman and more money..... only to lose his job and have the other half of the home-wrecking team bail on him.

    His children do not respect him as he has returned to the area and is commonly seen in a drunken state. Is he backslidden? Or was he never saved in the first place? I can't answer that but I can say this: he's out of God's Will.

    Is the losing of the job and the girlfriend a method for which God is "taking him behind the woodshed"? Maybe....

    Is there a difference between chastisement from God and the punishment of God? Pharaoh was punished. Tyre Sidon Soddom and Gomorrah were punished and detroyed.

    I'm confused.
     
  9. Emily25069

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    When I have sinned, I definately become convicted of it and want to stop it.

    Is this what you are getting at?

    If we can just sin and not think anything of it, then we arent being chastened, but if it definately stops us, then we have been?

    I have been in a church before where the preacher told a story that his nephew was in an accident and had become lame and they believe that it was punishment for his fathers sinful life. It was how God spanked him.

    I dont think I have ever experienced anything like that, so I guess I was looking at possible painful situations as spankings from the Lord, and I cant really find any.
     
  10. Dewey Sturgell

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    Dear Sister Emily, for in all the 16 years of God bestowing his Grace into my heart , I have found out that the flesh is so contrary to the spirit and when we lead into the flesh we reap the fleshly things which are not of God ,but as you age in Grace and lead into spiritual things you reap the spirit,( for when we do wrong ) for my self I become grievous in my heart which sometimes it takes repentance unto the Lord, but sometimes he just shows me more love and Grace and how merciful that he really is ,which in those cases causes me to prase him even more ,so to be wipped or so called chastised from God may very ,the scriptures say you reap what you sow and this can be very strong or weak according to what Gods intentions of teaching us something; for we are to be corrected when we do wrong, mainly the conviction that we recieve for doing wrong causes us to lean more to our Savior, for none of Gods children whats to be held out of any Blessings that our God would bestow apon us ,which by doing wrong may cause us to lose out on Blessings when we truly desire it, just to give us a reminder of what we are missing especially when the church gets a strong Blessing and we dont feel anything deep within our souls but get to see the members have joy and feel the Love of God in thier souls, hope the Lord our God gives you an answer to your question, May the Lord bless you always and the brothern here to, amen
     
    #10 Dewey Sturgell, Aug 20, 2007
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 20, 2007
  11. menageriekeeper

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    Emily, I have to tell you that not everything I have suffered in my life had to do with God 'chastising' me.

    For what purpose would God discipline a child by allowing it's parents to abuse it? That's not chastisement.

    However, looking back at those times of suffering from the vantage point I hold now, I can see that I was being formed. Now this is a different concept. This is not negative consequence suffered for wrongdoing as the word spanking implies. This is training, hard training perhaps, with a goal in mind.

    This training, this discipline is what makes a marathon runner run for miles on days when he is not participating in a race. This is why Olympians train for hours and days on end, just so they can particpate in a set of games that only come around every four years.

    God's discipline prepares us for running the race of His glory. It is for our betterment, not just to turn us from our wrongdoing, but in turning us making us stronger so the next time the turn might not have to happen at all and instead leap away from the temptation that will occur.

    The concept that your preacher seems to be working from is a concept that God gave to Isreal in the OT. This verse says it perfectly:

    Deut. 5:9 Thou shalt not bow down thyself unto them, nor serve them: for I the Lord thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me.

    Now a lot of folk think this means that God will visit punishment on a child for the sins of it's father.(including Jesus' disciples) That is not necessarily what the word iniquity means. This is how Encarta defines it:

    Instead, it seems that God allows the sins of the father to be repeated in the child. (this is what is meant by generational sin) The child suffers the consequences of willingly doing that which he saw in his own father to be wrong, yet did not correct it in his life, thus setting a precedent for his own child to repeat the same sin. They know the consequences, yet refuse the Cure.

    This confusion I believe comes from the very next verse in Deuteronomy:

    "And showing mercy unto thousands of them that love me and keep my commandments,"

    The two verses together seem to show that God punishes sinners through their children, but blesses saints (for lack of a better word).

    Jesus himself, however clarified the matter in John 9, when the disciples asked him who had sinned in the case of a man who was blind from birth. Had the man sinned (illogical, how can a baby in the womb sin?) or had his parents sinned? Christ answered "neither....but this happens so that the work of God might be made manifest."

    This definition brings us back to the beginning where I told you that God molds us so that we might run the race better for His glory.

    I hope this helps answer your questions.
     
  12. npetreley

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    With an asteroid belt.
     
  13. Ed Edwards

    Ed Edwards
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    How do you spank your own children?

    I'm taking care of a 16-year-old boy and a 10-year-old girl.
    They have both been physically & mentally abused.
    I don't beat them. There are better ways.

    One thing I know, whoever told my dying wife that
    her cancer was god spanking her DOESN'T worship
    the same God of Love that I worship.

    I wouldn't ever give my children any cancer -
    not even a light one - never ever. I'm not such a
    great Parent - but I'd never do that and I don't think
    my God would either.
    But cancer still happens :(
     

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