How does one side have all the truth?

Discussion in 'Politics' started by Eric B, Aug 4, 2010.

  1. Eric B

    Eric B
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    In these debates (here and elsewhere), this is the sort of thing I'm seeing over and over. Conservatives seem to think they are automatically in tune with "the truth" and anyone who disagrees with them ("liberals") are automatically against "the truth". It's like truth is defined by conservative vs liberal, rather than something each side must choose for themselves.

    And then it is supposedly so black and white that the other side can be talked to like they're stupid. It's almost like a debate on whether you can float across a void, or whether gravity will pull you down. One side is "just right", and it is so obvious that the other side is stupid when they try to float across but fall.

    I also notice the conservatives always end up accusing the other side of "anti-conservative" or "anti-American" venom, yet it's always their own responses that are full of taunting, mocking, sarcastic, bragging, belittling ad-hominems, and most of the liberals (at least in these discussions) are not returning in kind. It was shocking enough years ago when the likes of Botwinick and Meekins used to do it, here. Now, it seems it has spread to almost everybody.

    So just what is all of this about? Especially given that people here and many of these others profess to be Christian? What is with all this hostility?

    I know you all are angry about the liberal direction the country has gone in, especially with the most recent blow, in the health bill. But are you really expecting some administration to rise up and be able to restore America to exactly the way you want it? What does everyone realistically want?

    Where does this whole "good guys versus bad guys" mentality come from? I have noticed this in conservative rhetoric for 30 years, and I always said it was like watching the Justice League vs Legion of Doom on kids' TV. America, in its past ideal is called "the closest thing to perfection man can produce". If you disagree with this, or relay a point from the other side, you are accused again of being an "enemy", and wholly favoring the other system. (e.g. liberalism, or "trying to institute socialism").
    But not everyone sees things in that way. That if one side has error, then the totally opposite system must be instituted. Some people simply observe when they see a perspective that appears to lean too much towards an inaccurate extreme.

    This type of thing is what makes these discussions so stressfull.

    There seems to be no middle ground; absolutely no possibility of the so-called "good" side having some error that the other side avoids. It's all one EXTREME or the other. They will even throw up "there's only right and wrong; no gray areas" as if we were talking about biblical morality.

    But in scripture, there never is any such dichotomy in human history between some being "all good" and "all bad". Or even "mostly good". Only God and the newly created Adam & Eve were all good, and the serpent all bad, but when the serpent deceived Adam and Eve, they and their progeny lost that goodness to this day.
    (Yet people still think this was repeated as there was some golden age of righteousness formed somewhere, some time that was destroyed by liberals or humanists, or whoever, in recent generations).

    While the pagan Gentiles were surely portrayed as evil and depraved; even God's people, Israel, who you would think would be the "good guys", kept sinning, angering God, and eventually killed God's own Son sent to them as Messiah. Afterwards, the Church; the regenerated saints, continued to be plagued by sin. Look at the Corinthians, Galatians, and most of the ones mentioned in Revelation.

    It's not until you see the transformed saints in the end times, that you come close to that, and even then, their white robes of righteousness are the covering of Christ, not their own rightness.

    One person I debated with elsewhere recently, when I asked why he thought he was always right, began saying that he "had no ego", and no "ideology", but just "looked at the facts", which liberals always avoid. The discussion was way OT (it started over censorship of old films, and in the name of "free speech" couldn't help but carry on this rant against Democrats and the NAACP as the real racists; blacks and liberals always get an unfair pass {q.v. http://www.baptistboard.com/showpost.php?p=1576541&postcount=23} etc. —And this even before the recent NAACP controversy in the news), so it was deleted before we could go on.
    My next question was what makes him always "just go by the facts". Basically, like scripture askes, "what causeth thee to differ?" We're all sinful humans, hopefully regenerated by God, but that does not stop anyone from still having self-serving egos that cloud our perception in issues we are really passionate about.

    So I just want to know what exactly are people thinking when they tear into others, including other Christians, over this stuff? ENEMIES?
    Based on what I have gathered from conservative rhetoric:

    •How do the "facts" always end up ALL favoring one side, and the other side is completely wrong? What causes the people in one political "wing" to be more inclined to seeing truth than the other? I know some will say "God", but then not all conservatives are even professing regenerate Christians.

    •Why does civility, patience and temperence and the rest of "Christian" behavior go out the window and snarkiness, name calling and other ad hominems become OK just because a brother or sister disagrees?

    •Where does God fit in with all of this? Is it some sort of "election" sort of process, where He has simply opened some people's mind to the truth, so that they are always right on these issues?

    •How do people think God is sovereign over these things, yet they complain and rally as if evil has taken completely over and out of God's control? How does having supposed "facts" make their complaining OK, while the other side is always accused of "whining"?

    Here's an balanced view on the issue of journalism on both sides

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y4hruz5_Euo&feature=player_embedded
     
  2. carpro

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    :laugh: If that's your idea of "balanced", you just have to be a liberal.

    You, my friend, are very much part of the problem you identify above. You'll play no part in providing a "solution".
     
  3. Tom Bryant

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    Eric B
    I understand what you are saying and agree to a certain extent. Of course, we think we are right no matter what viewpoint we take. Is that a bad thing? I don't think so. Can I give the other guy the right to express his viewpoint? Of course, no one can stop the other side from expressing their views.

    You mention the Health Care bill. I am opposed to it because it will end up with my tax dollars paying to murder the unborn. So I am going to keep on talking about it. And I am going to keep on thinking they are not just mistaken about it but are sinfully wrong. I understand that others feel that abortion is a woman's right. I understand their position, but they are wrong.

    I am not certain that the video talking not about Christians but about the media supports your point.
     
  4. billwald

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    >Where does this whole "good guys versus bad guys" mentality come from?

    From their religious training about other religions and denominations?
     
  5. targus

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    Not necessarily.

    Even atheist - anti-God liberals have a good guy / bad guy mentality.

    They're just confused about who the good guys and the bad guys are.
     
  6. targus

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    Part of the problem is that many liberals have a "the ends justify the means" mentality.

    This rationalizes a host of undesireable behaviors and characteristics on their part in order to save the masses of people from themselves...

    Since everyone knows that liberals know better than we do what is good for us. :rolleyes:
     
  7. matt wade

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  8. FriendofSpurgeon

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    Sometimes, I think we need to remember that we are called to the Gospel of Jesus Christ, not the gospel of Glenn Beck, Rush, et al. We all should be more concerned about the spiritual views of our neighbors rather than their political views. We want to convert them to Christ, not to the republican (or democrat) party.

    That being said, of course my theology impacts my world view, including my politics. On certain issues, I believe Scripture is clear. On other issues, perhaps not so much and there is room for good, honest debate.

    Whether my brother or sister is a conservative, liberal, libertarian or whatever, he/she is still a brother or sister in Christ. We should treat each other as such.

    PS -- BTW, I still hope my side wins in November.
     
  9. FriendofSpurgeon

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    You mean kind of like that whole Ollie North/Iran Contra thing?? Or perhaps that Watergate incident??

    I think that happens on each side of the aisle.
     
  10. RAdam

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    The problem is people get sucked into the political game, which is just a distraction tactic. What is the difference between the democrats and republicans in general? The answer is: not much. Both will wreck this country if left to their own devices. I believe the dems will wreck it faster, but make no mistake that Bush and the republican congress were well on their way.

    Look, a politician is a politician. They are, in general, liars. They lack integrity. They are worried more about getting votes to secure their own careers than about doing what is right. They spin things and cater to voters. In short, they cannot be trusted. While I'd rather have reps in there than dems, the truth is I find both lacking and would rather have someone else, someone that cared, someone that was a true statesman and put the country before themselves.

    The fact is, deliverance isn't going to come from Washington, a political party, a movement, or an ideology. These things are idols man has constructed himself and then looks to for deliverance. How utterly foolish.
     
  11. jaigner

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    Wow. You're proving his point perfectly.
     
  12. jaigner

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    That's absolutely true.

    When we divide and distinguish over the smallest of points, we are drawing lines in the sand and excluding other brothers and sisters without reason. We're going to have theological differences. We're going to think other people are wrong. But it's not a big deal. I'd like to think that I'm right on target on every point of belief I have, but I'm sure I'm wrong somewhere.

    It would be better if we held our beliefs with an open hand.
     
  13. jaigner

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    Again, proving his point.
     
  14. targus

    targus
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    Excluded in what way?
     
  15. jaigner

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    From fellowship. Some of the more extreme folks try to exclude from salvation based on the most trivial of doctrinal points.
     
  16. rbell

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    I guess I would say my "default setting" is freedom and liberty. There are some issues, like abortion, where there is a clear-cut moral responsibility to protect, and to legislate.

    If there's any doubt, then my "default setting" is to say, "don't restrict freedoms and liberty."

    But I do think it's entirely possible to say, with conviction, that I feel the conservative course of action is overwhelmingly the wiser choice, because our "default setting" is more in line with our country's foundational principles.

    You're right that it should more often be done with less venom and less antipathy.
     
  17. targus

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    First - salvation is from God. No one else can exclude anyone else from salvation. It is not ours to give to another or to take from another.

    Second - this is the politics section of the board so obviously the discussions here are about politics - not doctrine.

    Third - debating politics is fellowship.
     
  18. just-want-peace

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    Re the OP:

    While there is a bit of truth in what you say, your attitude & interpretation tells me that you are truly biased enough that you don't see the "TRUTH"

    Ever see the movie A FEW GOOD MEN?

    I really had ambivalent feelings about this, because both the prosecution AND the defense had some very good arguments for their side.

    But it's kinda like the old Col. said, "Son you don't want to know the truth!", and that's the way it is for both parties - neither really want to know the truth.

    Having said all that, I must say that if you are truly accusing the conservatives as being as obnoxious and poison in their comments as the liberals, well, I'll just have to agree with the Col.!!

    Guilty? YES, but nowhere near as vicious!!!

    And it's typical for the left to use 3 standard tactics when facts are not on their side:
    1 Attack the messenger
    2 Make an attempt to make it a "We're better than you because---" issue (The old BDS)
    3 Take the debate in some direction to obscure the real point being made, or pick a minor point & amplify it

    Again, YES conservatives do this also, BUT NOWHERE TO THE EXTENT OF THE LEFT.
     
  19. carpro

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    Glad to help.:smilewinkgrin:
     
  20. Robert Snow

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    Again, no substance, just more useless talk.
     

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