Featured How does the holy spirit pray for us?

Well, been meaning to talk to you about that. My wife drop kicked me out the front door so I will be at your front door tomorrow. LOL

 

When....

...you can stop limping around....you are always welcome! Of course you'd have to come to the land of fruits, nuts and lfakes. I can't even stand it out here among all these liberals, so you may want to think this over. Plus, we average ten to twnety quakes per day! And with our heat waves and drought, things area "shakin' and a bakin'" out here! :laugh:

 

Some Christians talk in tongues. So do some Mormons, some devil-possessed spiritists, heathen witch doctors in Africa and Asia. Ages ago many heathen religions talked in tongues. It is not of itself necessarily of God.
In his book, New Testament Teaching on Tongues, Dr. Merrill Unger calls attention to this fact, on pages 163-165:

That tongues can be and are counterfeited by demon spirits is evidenced by the fact that spiritistic mediums. Muslim dervishes, and Indian fakirs speak in tongues. It must be remembered by those who try to make tongues a badge of spirituality or a status symbol of saints who have attained the height of spiritual experience, that speaking in tongues and their interpretation are not peculiar to the Christian church but are common in ancient pagan religions and in spiritism both ancient and modern.
The very phrase "to speak with tongues" (Greek glosais lalein, Acts 2:4; 10:46; 19-6; 1st Cor. 12-14; cf. Mark 16:17) was not invented by New Testament writers, but borrowed from the ordinary speech of pagans. Plato's attitude toward the enthusiastic ecstasies of the ancient soothsayer (mantis, diviner,) recalls the Apostle Paul's attitude toward glossolalia among the Corinthian believers.
Virgil graphically describes the ancient pagan prophetess "speaking with tongues." He depicts her disheveled hair, her panting breast, her change of color, and her apparent increase in stature at the god (demon) came upon her and filled her with this supernatural afflatus. Then her voice loses its mortal ring as the god (demon) speaks through her, as in ancient and modern necromancy (spiritism).
Phenomena of this type are common among savages and pagan peoples of lower culture. Ecstatic utterances interpreted by a person in a sane state of mind have been verified, In the Sandwich Islands, for example, the god Oro gave his oracles through a priest who "ceased to act or speak as a voluntary agent, but with his limbs convulsed, his features distorted and terrific, his eyes wild and strained, would roll on the ground foaming at the moth, and reveal the will of the god in shrill cries and sounds violent and indistinct, which the attending priests duly interpreted to the people."

So, intelligent and concerned people will want to find out what is of God and what is of evil spirits.
The matter is so important, let me call to the witness stand again the assistant professor in Grace Theological Seminary, Dr. Charles R. Smith. He says on pages 20-22 of his book, Tongues in Biblical Perspective:

IN NON-CHRISTIAN RELIGIONS.--Tongues occupied a significant place in ancient Greek religion. The seeress at Delphi, not far from Corinth, spoke in tongues. According to Plutarch (A.D. 44-117), interpreters were kept in attendance to explain her incoherent utterances. Many scholars have stated that tongues were experienced in the mystery religions (Osirius, Mithra, Eleusinian, Dionsyian, and Orphic cults). Some have concluded that the unintelligible lists of "words" in the "magical papyri" and in certain Gnostic "prayers" are records of ecstatic utterances. About A.D. 180 Celsus reported ecstatic utterances among the Gnostics. Lucian of Samosata (A.D. 120-198) described tongues speaking as it was practiced by the devotees of the Syrian goddess, Juno.

Today shamans (witch doctors, priests, or medicine men) in Haiti, Greenland, Micronesia, and countries of Africa, Australia, Asia, and North and South America speak in tongues. Several groups use drugs to aid in inducing the ecstatic state and utterances. Voodoo practitioners speak in tongues. Buddhist and Shinto priest have been heard speaking in tongues. Moslems have spoken in tongues, and an ancient tradition even reports that Mohammed himself spoke in tongues. According to his own account, after his ecstatic experiences he found it difficult to return to "logical and intelligible speech" (Kelsey, p. 143).

IN MENTAL ILLNESS.--The fact hat nonreligious tongues speaking often occurs in association with certain mental illnesses is well documented. Psychiatrists have reported it in association with schizophrenia, neurosis, and psychosis. Probably all psychiatrists and psychologists are aware of the possibility of psychic damage resulting from tongues speaking (Kelsey, p.227). It was reported that following the extended tongues meeting held by Aimee Semple McPherson, founder of the Church of the Foursquare Gospel, mental institutions in the area of her meeting were overburdened. The Episcopalian church financed a study commission which concluded that tongues are "not per se a religious phenomenon" and may appear among those "who are suffering from mental disorders as schizophrenia and hysteria" (Jennings, p.11)

IN SPIRITISM.--Tongues speaking occurs among anti-Christian spiritistic mediums. Contrary to popular belief among tongues speakers, a few years ago the European Pentecostal Conference admitted that "tongues might occur apart from the Spirit's action" (Brown, p.151)

IN THE DEMON POSSESSED.--Even Pentecostal authors grant that there are cases where demonic influence is apparently responsible for tongues utterances. Some feel that this is why "the gift of discernment of spirits" is necessary.

Again on page 38 Dr. Smith says:

In extra biblical literature this word was used to describe the "inspired" utterances of diviners. Moulton and Milligan cite three occurrences of the word in Vettius Valens where it designates irrational or unintelligible speech. It is stated that the speakers' minds had "fallen away," they were overcome with "madness," and they spoke in "ecstasy" (p. 72). Apoptheggomai was almost a technical term for describing the speech of the oracle-givers, diviners, prophets, exorcists, ecstatics, and other "inspired" persons (Kittel, I, 447; Arndt and Gingrich, p. 101). The basic idea is "an unusual utterance by virtue of inspiration." Though the word obviously cannot be limited to unintelligible speech, it is certainly appropriate for such. Its usage in Greek literature, in fact, definitely suggests a connection with ecstatic, often unintelligible, utterances.

If a Mormon talks in tongues with his false religion, is that speaking with tongues the Bible gift of tongues? I think not. If an unconverted Catholic who prays to Mary, confesses to a priest, hopes to get out of purgatory if enough people pay for masses and if he hasn't sinned badly, talks in tongues, is that the Bible gift of tongues? I think not.
Evidently Satan can have people talk in tongues also, and we need to carefully consider that when we talk about the gift of tongues.

 

You can not disprove the real by claiming that false is out there!
There are false teachers and preacher too! But the Bible says God set the real ones up in the church also, right?
We know Christ is real! But there are also false christ out there! So are you going to throw all the real out the door because of the false?

 

Question: "What is the gift of speaking in tongues?"

Answer: The first occurrence of speaking in tongues occurred on the day of Pentecost in Acts 2:1-4. The apostles went out and shared the gospel with the crowds, speaking to them in their own languages: “We hear them declaring the wonders of God in our own tongues!” (Acts 2:11). The Greek word translated tongues literally means “languages.” Therefore, the gift of tongues is speaking in a language a person does not know in order to minister to someone who does speak that language. In 1 Corinthians chapters 12–14, Paul discusses miraculous gifts, saying, “Now, brothers, if I come to you and speak in tongues, what good will I be to you, unless I bring you some revelation or knowledge or prophecy or word of instruction?” (1 Corinthians 14:6). According to the apostle Paul, and in agreement with the tongues described in Acts, speaking in tongues is valuable to the one hearing God’s message in his or her own language, but it is useless to everyone else unless it is interpreted/translated.

A person with the gift of interpreting tongues (1 Corinthians 12:30) could understand what a tongues-speaker was saying even though he did not know the language that was being spoken. The tongues interpreter would then communicate the message of the tongues speaker to everyone else, so all could understand. “For this reason anyone who speaks in a tongue should pray that he may interpret what he says” (1 Corinthians 14:13). Paul’s conclusion regarding tongues that were not interpreted is powerful: “But in the church I would rather speak five intelligible words to instruct others than ten thousand words in a tongue” (1 Corinthians 14:19).

Is the gift of tongues for today? First Corinthians 13:8 mentions the gift of tongues ceasing, although it connects the ceasing with the arrival of the “perfect” in 1 Corinthians 13:10. Some point to a difference in the tense of the Greek verbs referring to prophecy and knowledge “ceasing” and that of tongues “being ceased” as evidence for tongues ceasing before the arrival of the “perfect.” While possible, this is not explicitly clear from the text. Some also point to passages such as Isaiah 28:11 and Joel 2:28-29 as evidence that speaking in tongues was a sign of God's oncoming judgment. First Corinthians 14:22 describes tongues as a “sign to unbelievers.” According to this argument, the gift of tongues was a warning to the Jews that God was going to judge Israel for rejecting Jesus Christ as Messiah. Therefore, when God did in fact judge Israel (with the destruction of Jerusalem by the Romans in A.D. 70), the gift of tongues would no longer serve its intended purpose. While this view is possible, the primary purpose of tongues being fulfilled does not necessarily demand its cessation. Scripture does not conclusively assert that the gift of speaking in tongues has ceased.

At the same time, if the gift of speaking in tongues were active in the church today, it would be performed in agreement with Scripture. It would be a real and intelligible language (1 Corinthians 14:10). It would be for the purpose of communicating God's Word with a person of another language (Acts 2:6-12). It would be in agreement with the command God gave through the apostle Paul, “If anyone speaks in a tongue, two—or at the most three—should speak, one at a time, and someone must interpret. If there is no interpreter, the speaker should keep quiet in the church and speak to himself and God” (1 Corinthians 14:27-28). It would also be in accordance with 1 Corinthians 14:33, “For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints.”

God most definitely can give a person the gift of speaking in tongues to enable him or her to communicate with a person who speaks another language. The Holy Spirit is sovereign in the dispersion of the spiritual gifts (1 Corinthians 12:11). Just imagine how much more productive missionaries could be if they did not have to go to language school, and were instantly able to speak to people in their own language. However, God does not seem to be doing this. Tongues does not seem to occur today in the manner it did in the New Testament, despite the fact that it would be immensely useful. The vast majority of believers who claim to practice the gift of speaking in tongues do not do so in agreement with the Scriptures mentioned above. These facts lead to the conclusion that the gift of tongues has ceased or is at least a rarity in God's plan for the church today.

gotquestions.org

 

The person that wrote this avoid certain question...just like you are! Because if you answer the question with an honest answer it will disprove your man-made theology!
It must be easier for you to copy and paste than to cofront the topic yourself.

 

You do realize that their theology is taken from scripture, although reading it differently than you do -- and therefore is no more "man-made" than yours is?

You know how to stop all this? Make a statement on how speaking in tongues relates to salvation.

 

The Fruit of the Spirit evident in our life is evidence of our relationship with the Lord. The gifts of the Spirit are what He does (manifest), the fruit is who He is. The more we are with Him, and the more we see Him, the more and more like Him we become.

 

Don I agree, there is NOTHING about what is happening with the babble going on these days that has anything to do with the GOSPEL, SALVATION or anything that points to God!

All this babble does is EDIFY ones self and that isn't in a good way...pride.

I like the point I made in my study in 1991 and others have said since.

THAT IF TRUE BIBLICAL TONGUES IS FOR TODAY THEN WHY DO MISSIONARIES HAVE TO STUDY THE LANGUAGE OF THE LAND THEY ARE GOING TO....WHY DOESN'T GOD GIVE THEM THE GIFT OF TONGUES?

Nope the whole thing is a mess...and if miraculous healing was for today then those who claim to heals would go through hospitals and heal everyone..but that aint happening either.

Nope their belief is built on SAND!....lies not scripture.

 

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2 Thess 2:9...The coming of the lawless one will be in accordance with how Satan works. He will use all sorts of displays of power through SIGNS and wonders that serve the lie,

 

Biblical tongues is in the Word of God! Tongues is a manifestation of the Holy Spirit! The gifts were given to the believers! Believers are already saved! They are to empower to spread the gospel!

I ask again! Is edifying ones self in reading the Bible and praying a bad thing?

Because that is not the purpose of tongues! What were the Jews in acts saying and who were they speaking to when they spoke in tongues! You really need to search this out for yourself! Because you will be held accountable for what you spread!

Religion is in a mess! Not one denomination has complete truth!

The New Testament does not tell us to clear out hospitals!

What we find in the Gospels is that Jesus didn't always heal everyone around Him, nor did He go out in search of people to heal. He healed everyone who came to Him. He healed a lame man at the pool of Bethesda, but apparently He didn't heal any of the other disabled people there (John 5:2-9). He went in and out of the temple gate many times, yet He never healed a beggar there who was crippled from birth (Acts 3:2-8). There are a number of passages which say that Jesus healed all of the sick people in various places, but these were people who came to Him or who were brought to Him. These were not people whom Jesus sought out to heal.

Since Jesus didn't automatically heal everyone around Him, and since He didn't seek out people to heal, and since there's no record of Him going around emptying out leper colonies, we have no Scriptural precedent for trying to empty out hospitals.

 

Are you saying here that jesus did not heal all who he tried to heal?

he had a 100 % healing rate, ALL he tried to heal DID get healed!

 

I'm still waiting to hear what and who today's babbling benefits?

If it is only self edification that is WRONG...no where in the bible are we suppose to be self edified but to edify others. ALL GIFTS were given to edify the church.

I haven't met a charismatic yet who spoke on tongues who didn't sin abundantly...in sexual areas, mean spirited as they have a high esteem of themselves cause they think they are so special they have something others don't have...much like the immature Corinthians

I have yet to see (and I have been in a few of these churches..got saved by a pentecostal and have been friends with many) anyone ever INTERPRET their nonsense.

that alone make the gift a COUNTERFEIT!

 

Yes! the ones that came to him!

 

Question: "What was the purpose of the biblical sign gifts?"

Answer: When we speak of the biblical sign gifts, we are referring to miracles like speaking in tongues, visions, healing, raising the dead, and prophesying. There is no question among believers whether or not they existed, for the Bible plainly describes them. Where disagreement arises among believers is their purpose, as well as the question of whether we should experience them today. Some say that these gifts are a sign of one's salvation, while others say they are a sign of the baptism of the Holy Spirit, and yet others say their purpose is to authenticate the message of the gospel. How can we know the truth? We must search the Scriptures to find God's purpose statements about these things.

One of the earliest references to sign gifts in the Bible is found in Exodus 4, when Moses is being instructed by God about the impending deliverance from Egypt. Moses worried that the people would not believe that God sent him, so God gave him the signs of the rod becoming a snake and his hand becoming leprous. God said these signs were “that they may believe that the LORD, the God of their fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, has appeared to you” (v. 5). If the people still did not believe, God told Moses to take water from the Nile and pour it on the ground, where it would turn to blood (v. 9). The purpose for the children of Israel was that they would believe God's messenger.

God also gave Moses miraculous signs to show Pharaoh, in order that he would let the people go. In Exodus 7:3-5, God told Moses that He would multiply His signs and wonders in Egypt, so “the Egyptians shall know that I am the LORD, when I stretch out my hand against Egypt and bring out the people of Israel from among them.” God wanted the Egyptian people to know that He was the one working to deliver the Israelites. In Exodus 10:7, Moses told Pharaoh that the final plague, which would kill the firstborn, was to show that God distinguished between the Egyptians and the Israelites. The signs and wonders confirmed God's message to Pharaoh and the Egyptians, so they would know that Moses was sent by God.

When Elijah confronted the false prophets on Mount Carmel (1 Kings 18), he prayed for God to miraculously send fire from heaven so the people would know “you are God in Israel, and that I am your servant, and that I have done all these things at your word....that this people may know that you, O LORD, are God” (v. 36-37). The miracles he and the other prophets performed were a confirmation that God had sent the prophets and that God was at work in Israel’s midst.

Joel was given a message of God's judgment on Israel, and within that message was a prophecy of mercy and hope. When the judgment came as prophesied, and the people responded with repentance, God said that He would then remove the judgments and restore His blessing: “You shall know that I am in the midst of Israel, and that I am the LORD your God and there is none else. And my people shall never again be put to shame” (Joel 2:27). Immediately after that statement, God spoke about pouring His Spirit on the people, so they would prophesy, see visions, and see wonders happening. When the disciples began speaking in tongues on the day of Pentecost (Acts 2:1-21), Peter declared, “This is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel.” What was the purpose? That the people would know the message brought by Peter and the others was God's message.

Jesus' ministry was accompanied by various signs and wonders. What was the purpose of His miracles? In John 10:37-38, Jesus was responding to the Jews who wanted to stone Him for blasphemy, and He said, “If I am not doing the works of my Father, then do not believe me; but if I do them, even though you do not believe me, believe the works, that you may know and understand that the Father is in me and I am in the Father." Just as in the Old Testament, the purpose of Jesus' miracles was to confirm God's hand on His Messenger.

When the Pharisees asked Jesus to show them a sign, Jesus said, “An evil and adulterous generation seeks for a sign, but no sign will be given to it except the sign of the prophet Jonah. For just as Jonah was three days and three nights in the belly of the great fish, so will the Son of Man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth. The men of Nineveh will rise up at the judgment with this generation and condemn it, for they repented at the preaching of Jonah, and behold, something greater than Jonah is here” (Matthew 12:39-41). Jesus was very clear that the purpose of a sign was so people would acknowledge God's message and respond accordingly. Likewise, in John 4:48, He told the nobleman, “Unless you see signs and wonders, you will not believe.” The signs were a help to those who struggled to believe, but the message of salvation in Christ was the focus.

This message of salvation was outlined by Paul in 1 Corinthians 1:21-23: “It pleased God through the folly of what we preach to save those who believe. For Jews demand signs and Greeks seek wisdom, but we preach Christ crucified, a stumbling block to Jews and folly to Gentiles.” Signs have their purpose, but they are a means to a greater end—the salvation of souls through the preaching of the gospel. In 1 Corinthians 14:22, Paul states clearly that “tongues are a sign not for believers but for unbelievers.” God used miraculous signs like speaking in tongues to convince unbelievers that the message of Christ was true, but as the rest of the context shows, the more important thing was the clear declaration of the gospel message.

One thing that is often overlooked in discussions about signs and miracles is the timing and placement of them in the Scriptures. Contrary to popular belief, people in Bible times did not see miracles all the time. In fact, the miracles of the Bible are generally grouped around special events in God's dealing with mankind. Israel's deliverance from Egypt and entrance into the Promised Land were accompanied by many miracles, but the miracles faded away soon afterward. During the late kingdom years, when God was about to place the people in exile, He allowed some of His prophets to do miracles. When Jesus came to live among us, He did miracles, and in the early ministry of the apostles, they did miracles, but outside of those times, we see very few miracles or signs in the Bible. The vast majority of people who lived in Bible times never saw signs and wonders with their own eyes. They had to live by faith in what God had already revealed to them.

In the early church, the signs and wonders were primarily centered on the first presentation of the gospel among various people groups. On the day of Pentecost, we read that there were “Jews, devout men, out of every nation under heaven” gathered in Jerusalem (Acts 2:5). It was to these Jews, who had been raised in other lands and spoke those foreign languages (v. 6-11), that the sign of tongues was first given. They acknowledged that they were hearing in their native tongues about the wonderful works of God, and Peter told them that the only appropriate response was to repent of their sins (v. 38). When the gospel was first presented among the Samaritans, Philip did signs and wonders (Acts 8:13).

Again, when Peter was sent to Cornelius, a Gentile, God gave a miraculous sign to confirm His work. “And the believers from among the circumcised who had come with Peter were amazed, because the gift of the Holy Spirit was poured out even on the Gentiles. For they were hearing them speaking in tongues and extolling God” (Acts 10:45-46). When Peter was questioned by the other apostles, he gave this as evidence of God's leading, and the others “glorified God, saying, ‘Then to the Gentiles also God has granted repentance that leads to life’” (Acts 11:18).

In every instance, the sign gifts were a confirmation of God's message and messenger, in order that people might hear and believe. Once the message was confirmed, the signs faded away. We typically don't need those signs to be repeated in our lives, but we do need to receive the same gospel message.

gotquestions.org

 

And shouldn't those with gift to heal have same rate as he had?

 

Do we have the same measure of the Spirit as he has?

 

So you are saying this generation could not use signs and wonders to confirm the message and messenger? Interesting?

The problem with this theory is that it is totally without biblical support! There are plenty of miracles that happen outside these guidelines of Moses-Joshua/Elijah and Elisha/Christ and the apostles!

So how does your cut and paste defend their position with proof of miracles happening outside those guidelines?
Would you like me to start showing you miracles that happen Just in Genesis alone?

Our miracle working God does not fit in a man-made theory! His supernatual power explodes across all the pages of Scripture!

 

Are we God? jesus IS God, but we DO have the same amount of the HS as the Apsotles, so why can't ANY since them do the same things they did in name of Jesus?

 

truth is that there were times God did NOT do any miracles/signs, and he did do them in times that were used to demonstarte his glory, and for a specific purpose/time, such as Exodus from Egypt, times of prophets etc!.

there was NO prophectic voice/signs/wonders 400 years before coming of christ, why was that? Wouldn't God always be doing those things?