How Does The Illumination of HS Go With Teachers From God?

Discussion in 'Fundamental Baptist Forum' started by JesusFan, Oct 25, 2011.

  1. JesusFan

    JesusFan
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    Apostle John said that ALL of us have the "anoiting" from the HS to know the truth, how would that differ/go along with God giving teachers/pastors tothe church also?
     
  2. Jkdbuck76

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    Let me take a stab. Polycarp was John's disciple. He was saved and then learned at the feet of the Apostle John.

    The fact that Polycarp was saved = the fact that he had the Holy Spirit dwelling in him.

    Yet.....he had to learn biblical truth from John.

    But knowing the truth is different from learning the truth it seems.
     
  3. Tom Bryant

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    The Holy Spirit indwells believers so they are able to be taught the Word by the author of the Word. The anointing helps us to understand the Word both as we hear it taught and as we read it ourselves.

    But God also gifted people to be able to teach the Word in a more organized manner and probably with deeper understanding that a person might get on their own.

    But from Hebrews 5, we also understand that because of spiritual immaturity, some who ought to be able to be teachers weren't able to and still needed teachers. So teachers are needed until an individual can dig into the Word deeply enough on their own.

    But there are always people who know the Lord and His Word better than me, so I am always in need of good teaching.
     
  4. JesusFan

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    {quote] Could part of the HS work be to validate/confirm the truth of what we hear/read being taught, that he can give us discenment to false doctrine/teachings IF we are abiding in Christ, and yielded to Him, that the HS sounds "alert" in our souls?[/quote]
     
  5. Tom Bryant

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    John 16:13 states that the Holy Spirit would lead us into all the truth, so I would say that's part of what He does. But not all believers allow Him to do His work.
     
  6. JesusFan

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    Agreed!
    I was not saying that the HS tells us that Cal/Arm is the correct way, or that Gifts ceased or not, but that he will sound the alarm on false doctrines/teachings of the Word, such as WoF propserity, knowing date second coming etc!
     
  7. Luke2427

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    It sounds like you are saying that the gift of teaching is only for Christians deficient in maturity- that once a certain level of maturity is reached these don't need teachers. This is not what the Bible teaches.

    Paul NEEDED Peter. James NEEDED John. Paul NEEDED Abraham.

    Just so, you NEED Athanasias and Augustine and your pastor and other Christian ministers and theologians.

    The Holy Spirit makes it so that no Christian needs to be taught things to give them assurance of their salvation. That is the context of the passage in the OP.

    The Holy Spirit does not enable Christians to suddenly learn all theology in a vacuum.

    We NEED each other. We are a body. Few things are more worthless than a member that does not work with and rely on the other members of the body. Even teachers need teachers.
     
  8. JesusFan

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    God has indeed given as 'gifts" to the Church persons who have been blessed with keen wisom/insights/gift of teaching/preaching, in order to learn us up. mature us in the Lord BUT

    ONLY the Holy Scriptures are inspired By God, and ONLY source of revelation completely trustworthy!

    Not Calvin, Not Hodge, not Erickson, nor Grudem...

    ALL of them can be used to profit us, to allow us to learn/be educated/grow usup doctrines of the faith

    BUT if we ever had to choose between them and the Bible, always take the Bible!

    As the Bible ALONE is all sufficient to teach/train/equip/mature us into image of Christ as we applying it in our lives!
     
    #8 JesusFan, Oct 27, 2011
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 27, 2011
  9. plain_n_simple

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    The Holy Spirit confirms the word with miracles. It glorifies Jesus when a person is healed and gives the speaker integrity that cannot be had by just a sermon alone no matter how good a speech it is. The Gospel comes not in word only but in power. Things will happen. If things are not happening, it's just a clanging bell. Jesus said we would do His works. The Gospel is always preached with signs confirming. This is the command the Master gave, "Go preach the Gospel and heal the sick". Praise God!
     
  10. Luke2427

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    I cannot imagine a more meaningless remark.

    Who on EARTH has EVER said that Calvin, Hodge, Erickson or Grudem are infallible sources of truth???????

    NOBODY.

    But what makes these men special is their faithfulness TO the only perfectly reliable source of truth and their ability to utilize necessary tools to help them interpret it.

    No one is putting an inordinate amount of confidence in men.

    But what you are doing, not as bad as Winman mind you, but bad enough- what you are doing is ignoring a tool God EXPECTS you to use and rely heavily upon for most things spiritual- THE CHURCH.
     
    #10 Luke2427, Oct 27, 2011
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  11. Luke2427

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    This is horrendous.

    It is this backwards thinking and terribly deficient hermenuetic that gives rise to all kinds of heresy.
     
  12. plain_n_simple

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    It is the instruction of Jesus Christ to all who will deny themselves and follow Him. True believers will follow.
     
  13. Luke2427

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    no it is not
     
  14. JesusFan

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    NO, what I am doing is addressing thepoint that the Bible can be studied by each of us, and that the HS will grant us widom and uderstand on thedoctrines within it, especially as we apply them to ourlives!
    Do our diligent study, apply what we learn, and use those other refernce sources to learn/study even greater understanding, but JUST being historical does NOT make it right automatically!

    If that was the case, no need for the Reformation, as RCC had it historically 'right" over a thousand years!
     
  15. JesusFan

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    i am a "baptacostalist", but my understanding of the Bible is that what you mention was the accompying signs and wonders in transistion period in Acts, as the book of Hebrews made it clear that the Gospel of Christ was ALREADY confirmed by God through His Apostles!

    So no need to have the Lord do that once again, he can choose to IF he desires, but NO need to today!

    We also believe that God still can chhose to heal in response to prayer as He so Wills, but again, its His choice, NOT all get healed inthis life physically, but we ALL will be such when glorifed with Christ!
     
  16. Luke2427

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    you still don't get it. NO ONE is arguing that being historical makes something right.

    No one has even hinted at such a silly notion.

    GREEK MYTHOLOGY is historic!

    Nobody is dumb enough in this debate to assert such a ridiculous notion.

    What is being argued is that NEW doctrine ought to be submitted to the SEVEREST of scrutiny.

    This idea that you can just up and preach a doctrine that the Church of Jesus Christ has NEVER IN HER HISTORY embraced at ALL- it is really EXTREMELY ARROGANT. And it is deadly ignorant.

    Now there is a monstrous difference between a Christian doctrine that has evolved over time- one that has developed and is more clear today for this reason: we don't have to start from scratch every generation- we have the aid of hundreds of years of Christian scholars hammering out the details before us so that our generation is able to need only to polish it...

    There is a monstrous difference between that and a doctrine that the church has NEVER even HINTED at embracing before- not in her 1800 years of existence and yet BANG! there it it!

    That is Pentecostalism and mormonism and kjvonlyism and much independent fundamentalism.

    That level of arrogance and ignorance and irreverence is what ought to be condemend by you- and it should not be so hard for me to get you to start doing it post haste.
     

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