How Great Thou Art on Drums

Discussion in 'Music Ministry' started by Gib, Jan 13, 2014.

  1. Gib

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  2. Sapper Woody

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    Percussion can be used to amazing effect in music. The percussion in this was amazing, and added to the message of the song, rather than detract from it. Ironically, I thought the vocalist was detracting from the message. But not the percussion.
     
  3. agedman

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    nothing but vain repetition.
     
  4. Sapper Woody

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    Could you expound on that?
     
  5. Earth Wind and Fire

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    Gib.... honestly, from my prospective, drums should not be used in this particular song......to me, they ruined what I consider one of my best church songs. Bottom like..... I dont feel it. sorry.
     
  6. questdriven

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    The drums are great. (Although I'm not a huge fan of music where the drums take up a huge part of it.) But I only watched like 20 seconds of the video before I couldn't take the singer's vocals anymore. xD Not at all a fan of that style of singing. (Too laboriously and unnecessarily slow, maybe?)

    I think you can have a little fun and variety with the music without necessarily detracting from worship. (The Psalms speak of praising God with all kinds of instruments, after all.) But that's just my opinion.
     
    #6 questdriven, Jan 15, 2014
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 15, 2014
  7. agedman

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    Let me begin with a very short remark as to the lyrics used.

    Lyrics:
    When a truth is a few word phrase repeated over and over and over and over ..., then it becomes vain repetition unless more truth is added.

    For instance, those who support repetition as shown in the video, might point to Psalms 137 which repeats "For His loving kindness is everlasting."

    However, the emphasis is upon each phrase presenting a different aspect and situation in which His loving kindness was expressed. The repetition is not vain, but call and response. Each call presents a new truth, and the response is meant as an amen to that truth.

    This was in no way used in the video presentation, and it became vain (self glorifying) repetition, to enhance "feelings" over truth.

    Musically:
    With the rhythmic motif repeated and merely enhanced by volume and more instruments, but never truly changed, then the body (which is tuned to rhythmic impulse - why one marches, waltzes, taps toes...) becomes "enamored;" the "feelings" become more dominant than the intellect.

    The music elements are combined and used by those who use "music therapy." Scriptures demonstrate the power of music when redirecting rage to calm - remember Saul and David. A balance between rhythm, harmony and melody are the key.

    When the melody and harmony are secondary, and rhythm of percussion is not just present but dominant, then the body and that of the fleshly assumes dominance. (Remember the rhythm directly effects the body impulse desire - tapping, marching, head bobbing, undulating, gyrating...)

    That repetition with little or no change is used, then the rhythm is purposely pushing the intellect out of perspective.

    Beethoven's fifth is an excellent example of how strong melodic, harmonic, and percussive rhythm is used but also held in check. It starts strong, quietens, varying the volume and tempo as change is used. Though highly repetitive, it constantly passes the melodic and rhythmic theme among the instrumental groups building, pausing, until the listener is captivated not only emotionally but intellectually. The basic four note rhythm and melody are used as a guide charting the trail throughout the piece as the motif turns from this section to that - sometimes as a call and response, sometimes in variations, sometimes elongated, sometimes hinted but incomplete, sometimes fanciful, sometimes, slow, ... but never is the listener intellectually disengaged.

    Repetition is not evil in itself, it is when it becomes vain (ego centric, uselessly self admirable) that it robs God of His glory.

    One more item. In the video, who was the attention focused upon, the performers or God?

    Were they putting on a show of self glorification, or of selfless admiration of the greatness of God?
     
  8. Sapper Woody

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    At this point I have to assume that you went into the whole idea critically, instead of with an open mind. The only time ANY lyrics were repeated more than just a few times was in the finale'. In this case, the phrase, "How Great Thou Art" was repeated 8 times, then a pause, then 2 times, then a pause, then 2 times, then a pause, and then one last time.

    However, the short phrase "How Great Thou Art" is being used with two different tonal inflections in pairs. So, the repetition really is 4 times, pause, 1 time, pause, 1 time, pause finale'.

    Then we get to the crux of it, where repeating the double phrase "How Great Thou Art" was actually their bridge. So, in reality, we have them singing the bridge, repeating the bridge, and then using a disjointed bridge in the ending.

    No "Vain Repetition" at all.

    Rhythm in and of itself is repetitive. It has to be. It is the foundation of all music. Whether 4/4, 3/4 8/9, or even 8/9;12/9, all rhythm in every song has a repetition. It's what makes it music, instead of just disjointed notes in chaos.

    Kind of exactly how the group in the video did it, you mean? Starting off with a loud Aboriginal style and then subduing for the verse, and changing into a steady beat and underlying the vocals during the chorus and then climaxing in the bridge only to subdue again for the verse?

    Well, since the most memorable thing in my mind is the phrase "How Great Thou Art", I'd have to say that answers your first question. And if you attempt to answer the second, you are putting yourself in the place of God, judging intents instead of fruit.

    Rhythm has a place, and can be used powerfully. I believe it was here. It in no way became the center of attention, only serving to undergird the power of the lyrics.
     
  9. JonC

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  10. Revmitchell

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    How arrogant it is to assume that their use of repetition was used for self glorification. No one can know that about them and it was an unnecessary attack on their music and their character. And it is ungody to do so. Always has to be someone to come along and try to tear down the simplest thing on this board. People need to get over themselves.



    What I saw was God glorifying music done by Christians with no other intentions than to glorify God and they succeeded. :thumbs:
     
  11. Amy.G

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    Wow!!! That was awesome!! :applause:

    I kept thinking of all the verses that identify God with thunder and power!

    God glorifying? YES!:thumbsup:
     
  12. Gina B

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    The creative use of drums. Definitely.

    I listened first without looking, and it really made me want to look because the drums were obviously ones not typically used.
    When I did look, it was pretty impressive.

    I have in my music songs that are worship songs for me, and ones that aren't, though they'd probably confuse the tar out of anyone else. LOL Twinkle Twinkle Little Star can bring out deep reverence in me for certain reasons, while a hymn by a certain artist might be in one of my lists for regular listening as I go about my day, rather than in my song lists for specific worship time.

    Based on the song alone? They had a great and interesting thing going with the drums, but they ruined it with the key changing vocals and repeated phrases. (though the soloist was decent) That should have never been put together that way. It's like taking one of the best cuts of prime rib and smearing it with packets of ketchup. Both might be fine on their own, but it doesn't mean they'll work together.
     
  13. Bro. James

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    Compare the congo version to the acapella version found at: paradisepbc.org.

    Drums mesmerize like the BOOM--BOOM-BOOM coming from BOOM boxes.

    Making the flesh spiritual aint going to happen.

    Church is not entertainment of the flesh, paid pianists and drummers notwithstanding.

    Now what?

    Even so, come, Lord Jesus.

    Bro. James
     
  14. Earth Wind and Fire

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    AMEN!

    I WILL SAY, when my mother died...her favorite song & the one she picked for her song at her funeral was "How Great Thou Art " so my mind and soul still only hears that song sung by human voices alone and so it still stirs both the beauty and magesty of our Lord to me sung that way. But anyway you choose to deliver it is OK...I just perfer the beauty of the voice alone.

    To His glory!
     
  15. Amy.G

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    It's kinda funny how different we all are. The drums in the OP were edifying to me making me think of the thunder and power of God. So it didn't affect my "flesh" like some say, but my spirit.

    Now if you make me listen to Gaither music, it will affect my flesh because it makes my skin crawl! Blech!
     
  16. Earth Wind and Fire

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    I must not forget that living in a commie pinko
    state has some advantages...no Gaither music. I don't even know what that is!:smilewinkgrin:

    And PLEASE don't show me.:sleep:
     
  17. Gib

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    I just feel like something good is about to happen :tongue3:
     
  18. preacher4truth

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    You have to get yourself a hair-do if you want to sing in the Gaither band. Makes me want to puke.
     
  19. Gina B

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    LOL! I liked one Gaither song. I was really embarrassed when I found out who it was. Generally, my eyeballs start curling within two seconds but I was sitting there going "this is nice, who is this?" on that one.
    I have to go now. My glasses frames are turning plastic and my hair is getting bigger just typing this. My husbands shoes just turned into wing tips. WAIT, HOW DO I KNOW THIS STUFF?!
    Thanks, IFB churches, for always lagging 30 years in your worship songs. *sigh*
    Are we the only denomination that does this? LOL
     
  20. JonC

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    :laugh: I have to admit that I do like “Because He Lives,” “He Touched Me,” and Mark Lowry’s “Mary did you Know” (don't know about his Beetlejuice suit in this video). Actually, now that I think of it, there are many that I like. But looking at the video…well, there is a reason that I don’t like seeing pictures of me two decades ago. The only thing that saved me from a "bad hair decade" was an Army barber. :eek:
     
    #20 JonC, Jan 19, 2014
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