How I feel about Baptist life

Discussion in '2000-02 Archive' started by Speedpass, Feb 18, 2002.

  1. Speedpass

    Speedpass
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    The good of the Conservatives:
    A firm commitment to Biblical authority, inerrancy, etc
    A firm commitment to evangelism and missions both home and abroad

    The bad of the Conservatives:
    A "college of cardinals" still picks the SBC president four months prior to a Convention where a president will be elected.
    The new state conventions in TX and VA are primarily instruments to support the SBC, and not-so-much to support missions in their respective states.
    Too many churches seem to be program and activity oriented, instead of being purpose-driven

    The good of the Moderates:
    They have discovered strategies for mission work never considered before(no segregation of home and foreign missions)
    They stress the need to do Christ's work according to the Acts 1:8 pattern

    The not-so-good of the Moderates:
    Their opposition to winning Jews, Muslims, Hindus, Mormons, etc., for Christ. Some moderates feel the "salvation" experience of a follower of these faiths is equally valid with the salvation of a Christian.
    Their concerns about the Bible not being "inerrant" make me wonder if they are trying to water down God's word to make it feel good for themselves.
    Their Sunday-school curriculum seems more academic than inspirational.
    Just as they claim "fundamentalists" are trying to force their agenda on everyone, I feel some moderates are trying to force their agenda on everyone(eg, gender-inclusive language at Seminaries; liturgical, high-church style of worship; acting like the NRSV Bible is the only real Bible--just like some "fundies" insist the KJV is the only real Bible.
    The continued criticism of the SBC by several moderates(can't you guys find something better to pass the time).
    Forcing churches to call female pastors and allow females to serve as deacons.
    Worship of "Mother-God", "Christ-sophia", etc at CBF general assemblies.

    Finally, something I have noticed within the struggles between Baptists in Texas. It seems like Conservatives want their churches and members to be SBC-only, while Moderates want their churches and members to be BGCT-only.
     
  2. Circuitrider

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    Why not come out of that inclusivistic crowd and join the independent Baptists. We have great fellowship and do not have to conform to a splinter group on either side of those issues. There is tremendous freedom in living the life of the biblical separatist. ;)

    "Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you, and will be a Father unto you...let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit, perfecting holiness in the fear of God."
     
  3. TomVols

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    1. The candidates for President are announced earlier, but the election is done by rank and file messengers at the convention. Some think the Pastor's conferences are breeding grounds, but is anyone naive enough to believe that the liberals didn't do back room politicking?

    2. I'd disagree with your assessment of the new state conventions. Obviously, they are supportive more of the SBC now, but in time they will develop state mission opportunities. Remember, these conventions are very very young.

    3. Churches being program driven as opposed to purpose driven are found regardless of theological stripe.
     
  4. Speedpass

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    1994 was the last SBC annual meeting featuring more than one Presidential candidate. And that year the man who was not chosen by the "inner circle"(Jim Henry) won. That is what I would like to see in SBC presidential races--competition. Plus, it does pretty much cause the convention to be over before it begins when the "inner circle" decides on a candidate and nobody else provides a challenge. Are those who would provide a challenge afraid of whatever power structure comes from the Pastor's Conference, etc? And if my claim about the "inner circle"(possibly Patterson, Pressler, Rogers, Falwell, etc) picking the candidate in advance of the election is true, aren't those guys risking criticism from moderate Baptists---some of whom don't give any support to the SBC?
     
  5. blackbird

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    Here's how you need to do it--for all of you wags out there talking about those "inner circle cardinals"--go to the convention coming up in June--in Saint Louis--when it comes time for the presidential candidate submissions--get the floor--and nominate your man! That's how the "cardinals" do it--and they put their britches on one leg at a time just like a moderate does!

    Oh, and by the way--I have met most of these so called "cardinals"--great men who fear God!!
     
  6. donnA

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    It seems like the name of your post is not what the subject actually is.
    Your message has nothing to do with baptist life, life as a baptist. It's more about the working of the SBC.
     
  7. Christopher

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    While you post has nothing to do so with Baptist life, I agree with you concerning the Southern Baptist Convention. The churches are nothing but entertainment halls for youth. The preaching of the word of God always helped me when I was young, not the youth programs.

    Christopher
     
  8. donnA

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    What does that mean?
     
  9. Oahu Freedom Fighter

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    The more and more I read and research about the differences in the independent Baptists, Southern Baptists, etc I just get more confused.

    Why do we continue to battle one another and in the process turn many others away from Baptists completely?

    My family and I continue to search for a church and we have two we like. One is a Southern, FAITH Baptist type that plays music in some services with a praise band. The other church is a more conservative, independent one who sings from traditional hymnals and the preacher preaches from only the KJV.

    It really irks me when one group says that contemporary, upbeat Christian music is the devil and you should never have a band in church. They claim they are just entertainment halls. Well, I can say is I am more confused about which Baptist is right if any of them are. They are very judgemental people in many ways and just point their fingers at people who watch TV, dance, etc............

    Sorry, but I had to get this off my chest. Maybe we will choose a church soon. I just would hate to join and turn into a judger, hypocrite, etc........

    Aloha!
     
  10. Speedpass

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    If you look at what I posted at the start of this thread, you will see that this is not strictly about the inner-workings of the SBC; it is a summary about what I have observed about the struggles between ultra-conservative SBC leadership and their moderate counterparts.
     
  11. donnA

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    And this relates how to this....

     
  12. David Cooke Jr

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    What I don't like about many SBC churches is the "Jesus pep rally" style of worship (if you can call that worship). It's just a dumbed-down worship experience. Praise songs (no hymnals b/c no hyms), lyrics on the overhead projector w/no musical notes, and drama skits, and rock and roll style music. You might as well be at home watching MTV.
    The moderate churches I've attended have a more traditional (and even semi-liturgical) service. Traditional hymns, and a focus on scripture reading, revrent music, and the sermon. Its ironic how the moderates (and even liberals)place more worship emphasis on scripture than do the inerrantists.
     
  13. donnA

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    We have hymn books, and use them. We have an over head, and use it too, I don't read music and have no interest in learning, so whats the difference?

    According to Jesus, you need to find whats wrong with your ownself, or in this case church, and take care of it before you start running down someone elses. Then when you are or your church are sin free/ error free, you can judge others.
    Until then it's called sin.
     
  14. Joseph_Botwinick

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    As a moderate-conservative, I must disagree with you on this. have no problem working to win people of Non-Christian faiths for Christ. And I don't think their "salvation" experience is equally valid to that of a Christians. I think you have me confused with a flaming liberal.

    Just as they claim "fundamentalists" are trying to force their agenda on everyone, I feel some moderates are trying to force their agenda on everyone(eg, gender-inclusive language at Seminaries; liturgical, high-church style of worship; acting like the NRSV Bible is the only real Bible--just like some "fundies" insist the KJV is the only real Bible.[/QUOTE]

    Again, I think you have me confused with a flaming liberal as I would not try to force my agenda on everyone. If you don't believe the way I do, that is your perogative. Will I take a stand for what I believe to be the truth? Yes absolutely. Will you be welcome at my church if you don't agree with me on everything? Absolutely. It is called freedom. I personally think Gender inclusive language is wrong and unBiblical. And I personally prefer the Hebrew Bible or the NIV. Never use the NRSV.

    The continued criticism of the SBC by several moderates(can't you guys find something better to pass the time).[/QUOTE]

    Yes, I know. We lost. We ought to just shut up now and go away right? :rolleyes: I could probably ask the same question of fundamentalists...don't you have anything better to do than criticize moderates?

    Forcing churches to call female pastors and allow females to serve as deacons.
    Worship of "Mother-God", "Christ-sophia", etc at CBF general assemblies.
    [/QUOTE]

    Once again, I think you have confused me with a flaming liberal. I have never and will never worship anyone but the one true God of Israel...YHWH God. Also, I don't know of any Baptist church that has ever been forced to call a female pastor or deacon. They made those decisions on their own.

    Do you know the difference between a moderate and a flaming liberal? It is kind of like the difference between a conservative and a flaming fundamentalist.

    Joseph Botwinick :D
     
  15. rsr

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    Joseph:
    You have my sympathies. You're right. To disagree one iota with fundamentalists brands you as a "moderate" or "liberal." This isn't right. There are many of whom I think are "conservative" Baptists who are completely bewildered by the present state of affairs. Perhaps the Mainstream can help them.
     
  16. redwhitenblue

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    would you rather our youth be in a "church entertainment" or social hall...orrrr out on the streets into trouble from a lack of anything to do. Who says they aren't getting fed by the word of God too?

    karen
     
  17. rlvaughn

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    Karen, I think, given those two choices, most would rather our children be in "a church entertainment hall" rather than "out on the streets into trouble." But these are not necessarily the only two choices - many good children have spent time in neither.
     
  18. ResIpsaLoquitur

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    I am for the youth and I believe we should provide for their needs in our churches. That doesn't mean we only provide for their needs but we should care about having activities for them. As far as the moderate, conservative debate goes in the SBC, I am sad about all the division in our churches.I side with the conservatives but I don't like the division caused by our separate interpretations of the Bible.
     
  19. redwhitenblue

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    The point isn't if the kid has been on the street or not, the point is keep them off the desire to be anyplace else. Give them excitement along with truth, give them entertainment along with the gospel there's nothing wrong with it.

    karen
     

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