How I get to which day is the "Lord's Day"

Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by Gerhard Ebersoehn, Aug 1, 2006.

  1. Gerhard Ebersoehn

    Gerhard Ebersoehn
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    Jesus Christ "obtained", and was "perfected" in that He rose from the dead. Jesus Christ 'became' 'Lord', in that He rose from the dead - ultimately. He was called 'Lord' before; but since, He is Lord in perfection and through obtainment. Were He nor raised from the dead He today would not have been Lord, but vanquished. Lord' is Jesus' title obtained in victory.

    Jesus is Lord of that day He rose from the dead on; that day became "the Lord's Day", kuriakeh, by virtue of Christ's attaiment, on it.

    As Karl Barth put it, "What makes of this day this particular, meaningful day, is that which happened on it, and to it".

    Where Karl Barth said this about Sunday, I believe the Bible says it about "the Seventh Day Sabbath Day of the LORD your God".
     
  2. BobRyan

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    Agreed: While Karl Barth is a great source - the Bible is an even BETTER one -

    Mark 2:27 "JESUS SAID" he IS Lord of the Sabbath.
    Isaiah 58 - The Sabbath is called "the DAY of the LORD"
    Isaiah 66 "From Sabbath to Sabbath SHALL ALL MANKIND come before Me to Worship".
    Exodus 20:8-11 "The Seventh day is the Sabbath OF The Lord your God"



    So I suppose it depends on who you prefer to read and believe!
     
  3. BobRyan

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    But for those that prefer non-Bible sources on this topic (And there must be quite a few) --

    page 243

     
  4. mojoala

    mojoala
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    It's Ironic that non-catholics follow the sunday sabbath and the SDA just hate the hell out of it. Even the Catholic dictates when non-catholics celebrate Easter. It is just way to funny to hear all of the complaints abouts Catholics but no one is stepping up to change it.

    The United States Navy is the source that all calendar makers use when the Date of Easter needs to be applied.

    http://aa.usno.navy.mil/faq/docs/easter.html

    BELOW IS THE INFORMATION FROM THE ABOVE WEBSITE.


    Easter is an annual festival observed throughout the Christian world. The date for Easter shifts every year within the Gregorian Calendar. The Gregorian Calendar is the standard international calendar for civil use. In addition, it regulates the ceremonial cycle of the Roman Catholic and Protestant churches. The current Gregorian ecclesiastical rules that determine the date of Easter trace back to 325 CE at the First Council of Nicaea convened by the Roman Emperor Constantine. At that time the Roman world used the Julian Calendar (put in place by Julius Caesar).
    The Council decided to keep Easter on a Sunday, the same Sunday throughout the world. To fix incontrovertibly the date for Easter, and to make it determinable indefinitely in advance, the Council constructed special tables to compute the date. These tables were revised in the following few centuries resulting eventually in the tables constructed by the 6th century Abbot of Scythia, Dionysis Exiguus. Nonetheless, different means of calculations continued in use throughout the Christian world.
    In 1582 Gregory XIII (Pope of the Roman Catholic Church) completed a reconstruction of the Julian calendar and produced new Easter tables. One major difference between the Julian and Gregorian Calendar is the "leap year rule". See our FAQ on Calendars for a description of the difference. Universal adoption of this Gregorian calendar occurred slowly. By the 1700's, though, most of western Europe had adopted the Gregorian Calendar. The Eastern Christian churches still determine the Easter dates using the older Julian Calendar method.
    The usual statement, that Easter Day is the first Sunday after the full moon that occurs next after the vernal equinox, is not a precise statement of the actual ecclesiastical rules. The full moon involved is not the astronomical Full Moon but an ecclesiastical moon (determined from tables) that keeps, more or less, in step with the astronomical Moon.
    The ecclesiastical rules are:
    • Easter falls on the first Sunday following the first ecclesiastical full moon that occurs on or after the day of the vernal equinox;
    • this particular ecclesiastical full moon is the 14th day of a tabular lunation (new moon); and
    • the vernal equinox is fixed as March 21.
    resulting in that Easter can never occur before March 22 or later than April 25. The Gregorian dates for the ecclesiastical full moon come from the Gregorian tables. Therefore, the civil date of Easter depends upon which tables - Gregorian or pre-Gregorian - are used. The western (Roman Catholic and Protestant) Christian churches use the Gregorian tables; many eastern (Orthodox) Christian churches use the older tables based on the Julian Calendar.


    In a congress held in 1923, the eastern churches adopted a modified Gregorian Calendar and decided to set the date of Easter according to the astronomical Full Moon for the meridian of Jerusalem. However, a variety of practices remain among the eastern churches.
    There are three major differences between the ecclesiastical system and the astronomical system.
    • The times of the ecclesiastical full moons are not necessarily identical to the times of astronomical Full Moons. The ecclesiastical tables did not account for the full complexity of the lunar motion.
    • The vernal equinox has a precise astronomical definition determined by the actual apparent motion of the Sun as seen from the Earth. It is the precise time at which the apparent ecliptic longitude of the Sun is zero. (Yes, the Sun's ecliptic longitude, not its declination, is used for the astronomical definition.) This precise time shifts within the civil calendar very slightly from year to year. In the ecclesiastical system the vernal equinox does not shift; it is fixed at March 21 regardless of the actual motion of the Sun.
    • The date of Easter is a specific calendar date. Easter starts when that date starts for your local time zone. The vernal equinox occurs at a specific date and time all over the Earth at once.
    Inevitably, then, the date of Easter occasionally differs from a date that depends on the astronomical Full Moon and vernal equinox. In some cases this difference may occur in some parts of the world and not in others because two dates separated by the International Date Line are always simultaneously in progress on the Earth.
    For example, take the year 1962. In 1962, the astronomical Full Moon occurred on March 21, UT=7h 55m - about six hours after astronomical equinox. The ecclesiastical full moon (taken from the tables), however, occured on March 20, before the fixed ecclesiastical equinox at March 21. In the astronomical case, the Full Moon followed its equinox; in the ecclesiastical case, it preceeded its equinox. Following the rules, Easter, therefore, was not until the Sunday that followed the next ecclesiastical full moon (Wednesday, April 18) making Easter Sunday, April 22. Similarly, in 1954 the first ecclesiastical full moon after March 21 fell on Saturday, April 17. Thus, Easter was Sunday, April 18. The astronomical equinox also occurred on March 21. The next astronomical Full Moon occurred on April 18 at UT=5h. So in some places in the world Easter was on the same Sunday as the astronomical Full Moon.
     
  5. mojoala

    mojoala
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    Texts used to support a Sunday Sabbath

    There are 8 references in the Christian Scriptures to the "first day of the week", as Sunday was referred to in those days.

    [​IMG][FONT=trebuchet ms,arial,helvetica]Five of them refer to events during Resurrection Morning -- the day when the tomb where Jesus was laid was found to be empty. The other three are:[/FONT]
    [FONT=trebuchet ms,arial,helvetica][/FONT]
    [​IMG][FONT=trebuchet ms,arial,helvetica]John 20:19 describes events on what we would call Sunday evening. The disciples were gathered together. Some have speculated that this might have been the first Sunday worship service. Others suggest that the text seems to imply that they were gathered together for their own protection, out of fear of attack by the Jews.[/FONT]
    [FONT=trebuchet ms,arial,helvetica][/FONT]
    [​IMG][FONT=trebuchet ms,arial,helvetica]Acts 20:7: Paul is described as preaching on a Sunday evening. It was evening, because the passage refers to lamps being lit. Some Christians promote this text as demonstrating that Paul held a religious service on a Sunday. Others suggest that he gave the teaching on what he would call Sunday evening but we would call Saturday evening; the first day of the week started at sundown on Saturday in 1st century CE Palestine. If Paul considered Sunday to be the Sabbath then he would not have set out on foot to Assos on Sunday morning.[/FONT]
    [FONT=trebuchet ms,arial,helvetica][/FONT]
    [​IMG][FONT=trebuchet ms,arial,helvetica]1 Corinthians 16:2: Paul instructs the Christians at Corinth that each of them is to lay aside some money every Sunday that would later be collected for the Christians at Jerusalem. Some interpreters believe that this might refer to a collection of money at a Sunday religious service. Others suggest that the text implies that the money was to be laid aside by each believer separately and privately, and to be saved up by each person independently.[/FONT]
     
  6. mojoala

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    Jews have carefully kept the Saturday Sabbath for many millennia. Since the ancient Israelites defined sundown as the end of a day, the Sabbath runs from local sundown on Friday night until sundown on Saturday.

    SDA do not even keep the Sabbath as according to the Jews.

    So don't pay any attention to an SDA like BobRyan. He will lead you away with his false doctrine.
     
  7. God's Word is TRUTH

    God's Word is TRUTH
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    the reason early Christians did not meet on saturday but on sunday was because our Lord Jesus Christ rose from the dead on sunday. and plus we are no longer under the old testament law, but christ repeated all of the ten commandments except one, guess which one, thats right , remember the sabbath and keep it holy.

    In Christian Love,

    Dustin
     
  8. Gerhard Ebersoehn

    Gerhard Ebersoehn
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    BobRyan, you just cannot get it, because it just isn't your way of seeing things.
    One example: Look what you stress from the Fourth Commandment phrase; and we have before talked about this. You as it were skip the fact "God rested" as THE reason for the Seventh-Day Sabbath's being. And then you have no inkling of HOW God rested, namely that He by the "exceeding greatness of His power", rested in Jesus Christ, when He completed "ALL the works of God" "WHEN, He raised Him from the dead".
    And so I could go on, but all in vain, I know, because I'm talking to BobRyan.
     
  9. Gerhard Ebersoehn

    Gerhard Ebersoehn
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    Instead of using, the opportunity to join forces to the promulgation of the Seventh Day Sabbath of the Lord your God, you destroy it simply because it destroys all your old-fashioned, dead, osiified, 'Law'-arguments - and brings your church into discredit.
     
  10. Gerhard Ebersoehn

    Gerhard Ebersoehn
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    Then, BobRyan, where does it say in Is58, quoting uou, "the day of the Lord"?

    You do know, but you consciously avoid to apply your better-knowledge, again because it's not what you and your church teaches: "the day of the LORD" is not "the Lord's Day".
    By such blunders you further spoil every opportunity that might arise to the Christian improvement of the Sabbath Day.
     
  11. Gerhard Ebersoehn

    Gerhard Ebersoehn
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    I intended this thread to get at the Christian origin of the Seventh Day Sabbath in a positive manner. It shall be impossible if not attempted from a viewpoint to the glory of God in the face of Jesus. There's no other way to arrive at the 'remaining of the Sabbath Day for the People of God. Through the Law one must needs end up where the Jews ended and stalled - at a Sabbath-keeping merely of human atainment and virtue. It's not good enough for Christianity; and is despicable to God.
     
  12. Gerhard Ebersoehn

    Gerhard Ebersoehn
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    BobRyan,
    Even in what we agree upon, we must disagree, for instance, quoting, "nothing is said in the bible about the change of the Lord's day From Saturday to Sunday. "
    There scarcely is a modern day translation in which you won't find that The Lord's Day has been changed from 'Saturday to Sunday'!
    Where did it begin: in the second century, second half, Justin Martyr, quote :Read the NKJV! "After the Sabbath ... on the first day of the week"
     
  13. Gerhard Ebersoehn

    Gerhard Ebersoehn
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    Answering Majoala on his 'Easter'-ideas -

    It has nothing to do with the Day of Christian Worship-Rest as it should be according to the Scriptures and the Scriptures only.

    The last Passover though in the life of Christ so happened as to have everything to do with God Ultimate Rest in Christ in resurrection from the dead. - In confirmation of the Seventh Day Sabbath once more - Sunday never sores a mark in all of Scripture!
     
  14. Gerhard Ebersoehn

    Gerhard Ebersoehn
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    Quoting Mojoala,
    "[​IMG][FONT=trebuchet ms,arial,helvetica]John 20:19 describes events on what we would call Sunday evening. The disciples were gathered together. Some have speculated that this might have been the first Sunday worship service...[/FONT]"

    John 20:19 describes events on what we would call Sunday evening.
    Right!

    The disciples were gathered together.
    Wrong! O it sounds so holy, but the truth is the disciples did nothing of the kind! (I won't now go further into this - but I know what I'm saying.)
     
  15. Gerhard Ebersoehn

    Gerhard Ebersoehn
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    Quoting Mojoala,
    "Acts 20:7: Paul is described as preaching on a Sunday evening. It was evening, because the passage refers to lamps being lit. Some Christians promote this text as demonstrating that Paul held a religious service on a Sunday. Others suggest that he gave the teaching on what he would call Sunday evening but we would call Saturday evening; the first day of the week started at sundown on Saturday in 1st century CE Palestine. If Paul considered Sunday to be the Sabbath then he would not have set out on foot to Assos on Sunday morning."

    Paul did nothing like preaching the Gospel - he 'discussed plans' -itenerary- with the disciples present.
    And what is more, again, the disciples did not on the First Day gather for Holy Communion - they gathered for Holy Communion, it is true, but, quote: "On the First Day were gathered together STILL" - which implies they actually 'gathered together', on the Sabbath of the day before!
     
  16. Gerhard Ebersoehn

    Gerhard Ebersoehn
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    I rather follow after BobRyan in this case. I think you are completely muddled. The BIBLE - never mind the Jews - and JESUS, regarded the day as beginning and ending sundown for whomever has eyes.
     
  17. Gerhard Ebersoehn

    Gerhard Ebersoehn
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    Good, faithful brother, I was of the same opinion. I was fooled; so are you. Dogmaticians and translators are only human, and will give their life to furhter their own views and cause even though they are wrong - unknowingly, and often knowingly --- and, they will take the life of others, for the same reasons. AND, they will lead many into everlasting damnation for the same reasons.

    Once a man sees fit to change God's Word, he is left without fear for anything.
     
  18. BobRyan

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    [quiote]GE said -
    Then, BobRyan, where does it say in Is58, quoting uou, "the day of the Lord"?
    [/quote]

    Before slamming anyone who dares to post on your little thread --- read.
     
    #18 BobRyan, Aug 3, 2006
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 3, 2006
  19. BobRyan

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    Since a short survey of the many many contributors to this thread finds that "one of them" does not think Isaiah 58 says this...

    Is 58:13 ""If because of the Sabbath, you turn your foot From doing your own pleasure on My holy day, And [b]call the Sabbath a delight, The Holy Day of the LORD[/b] honorable, And honor it, desisting from your own ways, From seeking your own pleasure And speaking your own word,

    May I suggest some reading??
     
  20. Melanie

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    Every day is holy because of the magnificence of the Lords creation. I am happy to worship on Sunday in memory of the ressurection, but I try to attend Mass on weekdays as well to honour and give thanks for every single day that I have been permitted to live:flower:
     

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