How important is the doctrine of salvation?

Discussion in '2003 Archive' started by Daniel David, May 29, 2003.

  1. Daniel David

    Daniel David
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    In this thread, I would like to see what you all would separate from a person in regards to salvation. Obviously, by grace alone through faith alone in Christ alone is the theological position.

    If a person subscribed to the above, but not a particular matter in regards to any of those points, would you separate? If so, what would the issue have to be about?

    For example: say a person does not believe in the complete humanity of Christ. Is that a significant enough of an issue to say that fellowship is not possible?

    Or, how about this: someone says that faith will move one to be obedient while another says that faith is merely mental assent. Is that a significant enough of an issue to say that fellowship is not possible?
     
  2. go2church

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    In order to accept either one of the proposed positions one would have to redefine what grace is, who Christ was/ is and what He did. I am not willing to do that. Would I break fellowship, depends on why we are fellowshiping. Building a house with Habitat, no; teaching a class on doctrine well now we have a problem.

    Why are you always asking questions that define who you WON'T fellowship with rather then forming questions that ask who will be included?
     
  3. MissAbbyIFBaptist

    MissAbbyIFBaptist
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    Grace is unmerrited favour in God's sight. Faith is to place your trust and beleive in someone. In the case of salvation, that someone would be Christ. No, I can not fellowship with someone who does not beleive salvation is by grace through faith. The Bible is clear on salvation. Yes, other relegions, and even some baptists can twist verses saying it's of works or wahtever, but then they aren't taking it all in context. You either beleive the Bible or you don't. It's that simple. Either God's right, or the devil is. It's HEaven or hell. It's one way or none. The devil loves to place doubt in a person's mind. THat's how it all started in the garden. THe ole devil got Eve to doubting what God said, and look were that got the human race? Now he wants people to again doubt what God said...about salvation. And that is how people end up in hell. Because they doubt God can save them, or they doubt that's it's by grace through faith, they THINK they can make it on their own. But no one, no matter how smart, talented,pretty, sweet, brave, whatever, if there has been no salvation, if that blood isn't applied, then that person is bound for hell. You're condemed already if you havn't accepted Christ.
    No, I can't have fellowship with someone that beleives something oposing the Bible. In fact, it's herisies like this that confuse people so. I guess this topic is close to my heart because my great grandmother, who was recently diagnosed with cancer, is still after 86 years depending on her works to get her to Heaven. And I'll be honest. If I knew who taught her that, if I knew the so called preacher that taught her that, I'm afraid I'd be hard put to be nice at all. And many others in my family are depending on church membership, works, baptisum, to get them to Heaven! It infuriates me that people can teach such mess. It's messing people up, and those that trust in it, and never change from it and get saved are gonna break hell right open.
    NO! By God's grace I'll not fellowship with anyone who preaches, teaches, or holds the beleif of salvation by anyway but grace through faith.
    ~Abby
     
  4. russell55

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    Well, if someone out and out denied the diety of Christ, I think that would certainly be enough to spark me to separate from them.

    As to denying the full humanity, I don't know. Is someone out and out denied that Jesus was a real man, then I would separate, but I've really never met someone like this. I've heard people make statements that I think deny the full humanity, but they don't think that they are, and I usually chalk their viewpoint up to ignorance or the inability to think through what they are saying. In the case of what I perceive as ignorance or fuzzy thinking skills, I don't consider separation. I figure at some point the Holy Spirit will enlighten them....

    As far as I'm concerned, in and of itself this is a not an issue to separate over. However, if someone's view that faith is merely mental assent leads them to continue living what I perceive to be a life of sin while claiming to be a believer, then fellowship ought to be withdrawn.

    BTW, that I wouldn't separate over an issue doesn't mean that I don't think it's significant.
     
  5. Dr. Bob

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    This is key. The doctrine of Christ is the most important doctrine, and the doctrines of His Grace in salvation preeminent over all.

    I would separate in a heartbeat over the least variation from the Word. Literally.
     
  6. AF Guy N Paradise

    AF Guy N Paradise
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    Hey Abbey, I enjoy your posts. I am a IFB now in Hawaii. I was stationed in Charleston, SC before coming here so we were nearly neighbors.

    Anyway, I posted a devotion, either God is real or not in the General Discussion area that kind of explains how it is a black and white issue and not shades of gray. Aloha!
     
  7. Dan Todd

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    Quote from AF Guy N Paradise:
    I wish that I had been that eloquent and that right when I was 15.

    Keep posting Abby - and we'll keep reading!!! [​IMG]
     
  8. Mickes

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    Acts 3:19 Repent ye therefore and and be converted What ever happen to having to be born again by repenting. Do we just belive in our head and think we are saved but never turn from our sin. Do we not belive Gal.5:17-21 What about vs. 24 do we not have to crucifie the flesh to be Gods child. what about Hebrews 11 did Enoch not have a good testimony by faith that produced it.Did Noah not build the Ark by faith in Gods word belive and live it .Works do not merit salvation but faith without works is DEAD.(JAMES) True Faith causes repentance knowing we cannot save ourselfs True Faith gives us the new birth to trun from the sin in this world and live for the Lord. Eph. 2:10 We are Gods workmanship now and if you have truely come to him in repentance He will deliver you from sin by grace through Faith in all his word I separate from all that willingly remain in sin when it is brought to there attention. But I still talk to them and share Gods word with them to help them see the truth and come back inline with Gods word. As for certain doctorines I always go by Gods word and discuss differances with them and have to take that on a issue by issue calling. I think we need to be careful with seperating from people on certain issues to many seperate for reason that are not clear in the Bible that may be personal conviction weakening the power of the body
     
  9. Son of Coffee Man

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    It seems the key thing here is separation. If I am around someone who does not hold a proper view of salvation (or there is some disagreance), separation is only ONE option. To suggest separation as a blanket rule would be like suggesting excommunication from church for any sin. Who would be in the pews then? Or, if we are going to be so adamant about separation, who will we fellowship with?

    To ensure that I am not mistaken, I am all for separation. However I think we must be careful to understand what separation is and what it is for. I don't desire to change the subject but this really is at the core of the discussion. So let me begin with this: from my studying, it seems separation is always performed to help the other be restored to a right place of faith.

    SoCM
     
  10. Daniel David

    Daniel David
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    I am not always asking this question. To the point though, it is not enough anymore to positively state what you believe. Nowadays, one must also state what he doesn't believe in order to clarify and avoid confusion.

    In the original example, I mentioned the phrase "grace alone through faith along in Christ alone".

    If a person says he believes this, that is good. However, to further understand him, I might ask him to clarify. Paul spoke of another gospel with another Christ. So, if this person said that Christ was not born of a virgin, we do not worship the same Christ. If this Christ did not raise from the dead. If he did not actually die on the cross. Do you follow?
     
  11. Graceforever

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    Grace is………… G-ods, R-iches, A-t, C-hrist’s, E-xpense…….
     
  12. Watchman

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    I can't imagine it being put any better than Abby has put it. To preach any other means of salvation, other that the one the Bible presents to us is to preach "another" gospel. To them Paul has some of the harshest words in the Bible:
    "...let them be accursed."
    Abby, I wish that I could be of some encouragement
    in regards to your relatives, but we must be real.
    Every other religion in the world is some sort of works-based religion and all of them will get it's adherents only to the lake of fire.
     
  13. Paul of Eugene

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    As for fellowshipping in the church, scripture definately has something to say:

    2 John 7-11
    7 For many deceivers have gone out into the world, those who do not acknowledge Jesus Christ as coming in the flesh. This is the deceiver and the antichrist.

    8 Watch yourselves, that you do not lose what we have accomplished, but that you may receive a full reward.

    9 Anyone who goes too far and does not abide in the teaching of Christ, does not have God; the one who abides in the teaching, he has both the Father and the Son.

    10 If anyone comes to you and does not bring this teaching, do not receive him into your house, and do not give him a greeting;

    11 for the one who gives him a greeting participates in his evil deeds.
    NASU

    The key seems to be to accept fellowship in the church (the church is the "house" of verse 10) only with those who have the right doctrine regarding Christ; that He is the Son of God come in the flesh.

    It is, I suppose, a seperate question as to the ultimate salvation of a soul that labors under a false impression concerning Jesus. Just where God draws that line is not mine to say.
     

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