How is it Biblical?

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Eric B:
Everybody uses Romans 9, but this is out of it's context: <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yeah, and Eph 1, John 6, Rom 8, Gal 1 ...

 

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Karen:


One of the reasons I often find it hard to follow your discussions is that sometimes you admit that it is a mystery, and then sometimes you and the authors you quote seem to insist on the idea that election is almost a celestial dart board.
And then you appeal to the concept that if God does something that would be unfair in human terms, it is okay, because God's ways are higher.
Sometimes, all non-Calvinists are saying is that we see the mystery faster than you do,
and we leave it at that.

Karen<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

The mystery is how God does these things. That he does is not a mystery, but is clear form Scripture.

 

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Yeah, and Eph 1, John 6, Rom 8, Gal 1 ...<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I wasn't arguing about those passages. I was specifically discussing Romans 9, which is used to try to silence people who ask why God would essentially create people for Hell, and thus win the argument that way.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>The mystery is how God does these things. That he does is not a mystery, but is clear form Scripture. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

The same with this "mystery" issue. It's obvious that we have paradoxes in scripture. Just like the Trinity, there are opposing polarities whose resolutions are beyond our full comprehension. Scripture shows that God is sovereign and elects people, but there are evidences that anyone can be saved, such as the passages discussing Christ dying for all (It does not say "all of a limited group"), and His telling us to win souls (which would be unnecessary since man could in no way affect the decree of election), and that He weeps for the lost (why would He do this if He predestined their ternal fate).
The Calvinists push back the mystery by taking one side of this, reinterpreting the other, and than building this "hard truth" and then claiming it is ultimately a mystery, using Romans 9 to silence everyone. What Karen is saying is that you have already crossed the line into the unsearchable in positing this idea. Why can't we just leave it at we don't know how exactly it fits together? Why is there so much stock being put in the point of people being created for Hell? It's almost like people get some kind of kick out of that ("just as long as it wasn't me").