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Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by Arbo, May 5, 2012.

  1. DHK

    DHK <b>Moderator</b>

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    This sounds like such a nice Calvinistic paradigm.
    Remember my example was a two year old, but not necessarily one who is saved.
    You are speaking of saved individuals. You are defining sin as when the spirit, which rules over the mind, is at enmity with God. When that happens you say people have mental illness?

    Since the carnal mind cannot please God, one can only conclude that what you are saying is all the unsaved on the planet are in a state of mental illness. Is this correct? It certainly sounds like according to your above post.
     
  2. Scarlett O.

    Scarlett O. Moderator
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    Brother, I am just asking you to back up your own words. YOU said that this nouthetic counseling was the "ONLY" way to counsel someone and "deal" with someone that the world claimed was mentally ill.

    You even provided a link to their methodology. I have twice now cited the passage where the claim is to "threaten" people into confessing their secrets to you (the "counselor"). The Bible speaks much of counsel. I just want to know where is says that a Christian who is counseling another is to threaten that person into confessing sin.

    It's your words and your link. You are the one who is a stickler for "if it's not in the Bible, it's wrong". I just want to see in the Bible where it says to threaten people.


    Nope. Try again.

    This was a person who not ill, but sin-sick. He was in complete control of his faculties at all times. And he was not under the care of a counselor. And had a Christian walked by and seen him, just like the Good Samaritan, it would have been the Christian's duty to see if he needed help.

    I asked you about the nouthetic counseling that advises "counselors" to threaten people who are NOT in control of their mental faculties and to leave them lying in their own excrement in a bed or hospital or living room or street because they won't "confess" some unknown sin.

    Where in the Bible is a Christian commanded to leave helpless people who are not in control of their faculties wallowing in their own excrement because they won't confess sin?
     
  3. Scarlett O.

    Scarlett O. Moderator
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    This is my last post here on this topic.

    You are making a claim that Spurgeon had unconfessed sin in his life and that's what depressed him? This claim is arrogant on your part, brother. You know no such thing. I know no such thing.

    There are PLENTY of people out there who are depressed because of other people's sin and lost status. I've seen people greatly depressed because their father died and they knew that he was not saved. The depression was acute - I can assure you. One woman I know needed much counsel in this area. She had witnessed to and prayed for her father for decades and had gotten deacons and pastors to come and talk to him to no avail. Her depression was not due to personal sin of her own.

    I've seen my own pastor go through a temporary depression because of his two brand-new grandchildren being born and his justified and terrible worry of the world that they are going to live in.

    Neither one of these people needed medications. They got counsel and received help.

    But had the depression lingered and lingered despite the wise counsel, temporary use of mild meds could have pulled them out of the cloud their were under.

    Depression is in NO WAY linked to personal sin 100% of the time.

    Grief over the loss of loved ones, lost family members, and more can contribute.

    Your claiming that Spurgeon suffered depression because of personal and unconfessed sin show delusions of grandeur on your part. You are not the all-knowing or all-seeing SuperChristian that you think you are.

    You are our brother in the Lord and you should heed what some here are saying so that fellowship can be restored.

    My contribution to restoring fellowship here is that I will not talk about this anymore with you.
     
  4. Jim1999

    Jim1999 <img src =/Jim1999.jpg>

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    Mr. Spurgeon suffered the effects of a false fire call in his assembly where several people were killed trying to escape the building. He blamed himself.

    He also suffered a medical ailment which could not be healed. Many a person has suffered depression from this same ailment to-day.

    With all his ailments and short life, he accomplished more in ministry than many who have ministered to this day with a much longer life span.

    How many deep theological books have you written? How many thoughtful and biblical sermons have you preached and had published?

    Seems to me there is little room to accuse one as dedicated to Christ as was Mr. Spurgeon despite all his short-comings rolled into one.

    Cheers,

    Jim
     
  5. padredurand

    padredurand Well-Known Member
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    Responding to concerns about "Competent to Counsel" by Jay E. Adams

    It's not of God; it's of man. It's not a thing of the Spirit; it's a thing of the flesh. It's not the responsibility of obedient ministers, but is arrogant priest-craft that is practiced by those wishing to be lords over God's heritage.

    This man encourages his disciples to usurp apostolic authority, to substitute his own training manuals for the leadership of the Holy Spirit, and in doing so, he speaks of God's heritage as though they were cattle to be herded, not lambs to be led. In his writings he not only shows a lack of respect for those he counsels, but an arrogant contempt for all that came before him. He sees his purpose, and the purpose of his students to be to reach down and lift the lazy, dishonest, immoral church members to a higher plain.

    Paul told the Phillipians to "work out your own salvation with fear and trembling for it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of His good pleasure." When we each "work out" what God has "worked within", we no long require the "self-helps" of men but can follow the touch of the Master's gentle hand and revelation in the word of God. I think if "Competent to Counsel" were indispensable to the man of God, The Lord would have included it in the New Testament.

    -Elder Frank L. Smith Sr. Hamilton Primitive Baptist Church
     
  6. agedman

    agedman Well-Known Member
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    In the days of the pharaohs, the seat of "feelings, thinking,..." (the I that says you are not me) was considered in the body cavity. That is why the organs were removed and stored.

    In the days of the Greeks, the seat of the above list was considered in the stomach - were we get the term, butterflies in the stomach.

    In the days of latter Rome up until the last century, such resided in the heart - hence the term, heart of the matter.

    In our modern semi technologically improved abilities to have a bit of understanding about the brain and the functions of both areas and micro-cellular structures, the above list resides in the brain which for lack of a more specific term laymen (and professionals) would call "mind."

    So when you are reading or talking about such scriptures as:
    "Let this mind be in you" or the list such as the Lord gave "heart... mind... soul..." it is important that one keep "in mind" (in the thinking) that "heart" refers to "kardia" or the feelings and "mind" refers to "dianoia" or thinking, imagination, understanding.

    There are some who would make much of the distinction between "heart, mind, and brain" and they are wrong to do so.

    As has been pointed out on the threads multiple times, one cannot separate the thinking processes (mind) from the feelings erupting (heart), but there must be regulation and energy spent upon critical analysis, meditation upon Scripture, and being fully clad in the armor while holding forth the Word.

    That function takes place in the brain.

    Therefore, if the brain is malfunctioning, there is need of help.

    Such help both medicinal and counsel is part of Scriptures. To even suggest a denial those help is poor understanding and handling of the Word of God.
     
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