1. Welcome to Baptist Board, a friendly forum to discuss the Baptist Faith in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to all the features that our community has to offer.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

How many here On BB See themselves As being Amyraldians?

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by JesusFan, May 25, 2011.

  1. JesusFan

    JesusFan Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2011
    Messages:
    8,913
    Likes Received:
    240
    if not strictly Cal/Arm...

    Any other of us posting here?
     
  2. TomVols

    TomVols New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 30, 2000
    Messages:
    11,170
    Likes Received:
    0
    Some would say I am, some would say I'm not. Both would do so with derision, I'm sure :smilewinkgrin:
     
  3. JesusFan

    JesusFan Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2011
    Messages:
    8,913
    Likes Received:
    240
    IF one tends to hold to doctrines that Giod does elect people on indivdual basis, it is irresistible, but that faith preceeds regeneration...

    that Jesus did die for propiation on whole World...

    is that considered one to be an Amyraldian?
     
  4. Alive in Christ

    Alive in Christ New Member

    Joined:
    Jun 22, 2008
    Messages:
    3,822
    Likes Received:
    1
    Well, if someone could tell me what a "Amyraldian" is, I might be able to say if I are one! :laugh:
     
  5. JesusFan

    JesusFan Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2011
    Messages:
    8,913
    Likes Received:
    240
    basically, would be anyone who while holding to the belief that God does elect those of his choosing to Eternal Life in Christ, and grants them the means to get saved...

    believe in Unlimited Atonment provision of the Cross, propiation for whole World
    believe that faith precedes regeneration , that though God does quicking one to be now in a position to actually turn from sin unto jesus, but must place personal faith in Him to actually be saved
    believe that one saved will be kept by God eternally secured in Christ

    tend to see God having 2 Divine Wills functioning
    Direct/determintive and permissive/allowed

    basically mediating position between High end calvisnism and classic Arminianism!

    What is interesting is that high amd moderate Cals argue over if Calvin himself was in their groups!
     
  6. TomVols

    TomVols New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 30, 2000
    Messages:
    11,170
    Likes Received:
    0
    I don't know if all Amyraldians would hold to these distinctions. Some would say regeneration preceeds faith and that the atonement is limited, but that grace can be resisted. That's the Amaryaldianism I'm most familiar with.
     
  7. Allan

    Allan Active Member

    Joined:
    Jul 26, 2006
    Messages:
    6,902
    Likes Received:
    5
    I would agree here.
    The most concise divisions are known to be of basically 2 categories and later is less held and are not usually considered Amyraldians by first group, like Cals deny Amyraldians are not true Cals but wanna-be's.

    1. Unlimited Atonement (stated in various ways but most notably hypothetical)
    .... but grace is still irresistible
    This group would consider them

    2. Unlimited Atonement
    ...2a. Grace is resistible

    Within this group there are other less notable but varied aspects just like with Calvinism but it does not of necessity modify the other basic tenants.

    I am more like the second group.. but would be considered a 3.5 or might be considered a 4 if my definition of the effectual call were agreed upon :)

    ((FTR- I believe the 'call' is not some special calling only given to a selected group. I believe the call is the same, given to all men in the same way. The distinction is that the call is designed to or for the purpose of bringing in those of faith only (God's elect). This calling is not due to God looking down the corridors of time to see who will believe IF God did it this way, but in that God knowing man would die in his sins, determined to save man by faith that it might be by His grace.. and in determining 'how' He also knew (in that same moment of decision) 'who'. They (people of faith) were His choice, not Him, theirs. Yet this statement does not preclude the fact that we, in time, choose Him to be our God, as He has chosen already to for us to be His people.))
     
    #7 Allan, May 26, 2011
    Last edited by a moderator: May 27, 2011
  8. JesusFan

    JesusFan Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2011
    Messages:
    8,913
    Likes Received:
    240
    So main differences sen between"real calvinist" and those of us in this group would be:
    Do see atonement as being unlimited propiation for whole World
    may see faith as causing regeneration, instead of always regeneration causing faith?
     
  9. Allan

    Allan Active Member

    Joined:
    Jul 26, 2006
    Messages:
    6,902
    Likes Received:
    5
    One point of clarification. Faith does not 'cause' regeneration. Regeneration is the act of God upon a man. The act of regeneration is salvation. Man's faith does not 'cause' God to do this. God has chosen to do this upon those of faith.

    Man does not trade his belief for salvation nor does believing add anything to the man for salvation. Man simply acknowledges what God says is true and cries out for mercy.
     
  10. JesusFan

    JesusFan Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2011
    Messages:
    8,913
    Likes Received:
    240
    So faith would be the means to 'access' the grace that God provides in order to accomplish bring about salavation/regeneration?
     
Loading...