How many non-Calvinists would...

Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by Victorious, Jan 3, 2010.

  1. Victorious

    Victorious
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    ...use the same criticisms against such great preachers like Charlies H. Spurgeon, Jonathan Edwards, George Whitefield, as they do against their Calvinist brothers and sisters in Christ here on this board?

    Are you willing to put them in the same category as heretics?


    Sorry, but I'll be in church all day Sunday and Sunday night and won't be able to respond until Monday.

    Until then, thank you for commenting and have a blessed Lord's Day!
    :jesus:​
     
  2. Jon-Marc

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    I have never thought Calvinists were heretics. I just don't believe in limited atonement. God's power to forgive and save is not limited; why should His atonement be limited?
     
  3. sag38

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    Who here has called them heretics in the first place? As far as the doctrines of grace are concerned I think Spurgeon was wrong. But, that doesn't make him a heretic. I'll be in God's glory with him one day along with many Calvinist and non-Calvinist brothers and sisters in Christ.
     
  4. Robert Snow

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    I am not a Calvinist, but I listen to several preachers that are. I learn what I can from whoever is preaching or teaching God's Word.

    Just like, I am not convinced that Dispensationalism is correct, but my Sunday School teacher is, and I love his class.
     
  5. Bob Alkire

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    For the most part, I try and stay out of the Calvinist debate. I don't believe Calvinism is correct, so I disagree with Spurgeon, Edwards, Whitefield and any others who hold to calvinism when they are teaching that view. That would be the end of it.
     
  6. saturneptune

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    There is no justification for the premise of this thread. There have been very few instances of calling one side or the other "heretic." The vast majority here do not feel that way.
     
  7. Allan

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    Preach it brother! :thumbs:
     
  8. Victorious

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    That's good to know and I agree that most responses are balanced and cordial. However, I have seen some interesting posts on this board that seem to point in that direction. No actual "heretic" word used, but it sure looks like that's the line that was almost crossed. Just me. As far as no justification for this post? Maybe so, maybe not. Depends upon which seat you're in.

    Thanks for the comment.:)
     
  9. Victorious

    Victorious
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    Well, you will be interested to know that Dave Hunt does call Calvinists heretics as he speaks at Calvary Chapels around CA. I wanted to know the truthful mindset on this board.

    The first words he spoke at a conference I attended with my son were these:

    "There is a heresy going around and it's called CALVINISM. At that point he began to completely misrepresent the Doctrines of Grace!

    Afterward, I was outside speaking of it with my son, when a man whom my son knows warned him not to speak with me, that I was a heretic! My son yelled, "That's my mom!" He then turned and said, "It doesn't matter. If she doesn't agree with Dave Hunt, she's a heretic! LOL!

    It seems to be the thing of the day with non-C's. It happens.
     
  10. Allan

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    Just because Dave Hunt does it does not mean in any fashion 'it is the thing of the day with Non-Cals'.

    It is no more just for Dave Hunt to misrepresent others, their views, or accusations against them, anymore than it is for you or I to do so.

    I have been called a heretic for not believing in the sovereign grace doctrines and even on here been accused by a rare few (and quite a while back) that anything Not Calvinistic is heresy or at the very least false teachings and this was usually after heated debate. Yet I do not lump all Calvinists or those Reformed minded brethren as all being same nor should you.

    That is why I appreciated Saturneptune's post on behalf of us 'Non-Cals' as he does subscribe to the sovereign grace doctrines and yet knows the few do not speak for the whole.
     
    #10 Allan, Jan 3, 2010
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 3, 2010
  11. Allan

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    sags point was not in general but specific to your post about 'on here' or on the BB, who has called Calvinism or the adherants thereof 'heretics'.
     
  12. Jerome

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    Much of what the board Calvinists are criticized for would not be at all applicable to someone like Charlies Spurgeon.
     
  13. Victorious

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    Actually?

    It probably would be:

    In Defense of Calvinism
    http://www.spurgeon.org/calvinis.htm

    "The old truth that Calvin preached, that Augustine preached, that Paul preached, is the truth that I must preach to-day, or else be false to my conscience and my God. I cannot shape the truth; I know of no such thing as paring off the rough edges of a doctrine. John Knox's gospel is my gospel. That which thundered through Scotland must thunder through England again."—C. H. Spurgeon

    “What is the heresy of Rome, but the addition of something to the perfect merits of Jesus Christ—the bringing in of the works of the flesh, to assist in our justification? And what is the heresy of Arminianism but the addition of something to the work of the Redeemer? Every heresy, if brought to the touchstone, will discover itself here. I have my own private opinion that there is no such thing as preaching Christ and Him crucified, unless we preach what nowadays is called Calvinism” - C. H. Spurgeon

    Spurgeon was a dyed-in-the wool Calvinist. Even to the point of calling Calvinism the only gospel (in so many words.) He mentions Arminianism as heresy. My own belief on the matter is that we need to be careful what we call error, what we call ignorance and what we call heresy. I was saved as a non-Calvinist and had not really studied the doctrine that Spurgeon espoused in scripture on my own until 11 years later, but I was definitely saved.

    But far be it from me to condemn a brother or sister in the Lord for believing otherwise. It is one understanding to be sure, but even the most dogmatic among us must leave room for God to explain the mystery in full when we get to heaven. We look through the mirror darkly and what we can't see must be tempered by grace and continued love for one another (I'm really not a mushy person, but it is the commandment!)

    It is by our God that we each stand or fall. The only thing that matters ultimately in salvation is the work of God on a sinner’s heart through the gospel of Jesus Christ – period. :godisgood:
     
  14. Victorious

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    You’re right. I should have said, SOME non-c’s. Didn’t mean everyone. Forgive me. I didn’t mean to imply that everyone on this board did.

    This was not a contentious post as “If I were a Calvinist..” It was not meant to be vitriolic or mocking. The post is asking two simple questions that I have been pondering in general, since I've seen this many times. I was addressing the audience here because I've seen a few get a bit passionate - sometimes to the point of insulting. Am I wrong?
     
  15. Allan

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    No, you're not wrong and I agree that both sides have had this done to them.

    But remember that for every time you hear Calvinism degraded, put down, belittled, or declared a false teaching and or heresy, the same is being said of the non-cals by the Calvinists/Reformed as well. Yet there are those of us who like Spurgeon and Moody as well as Whitefield and Wesley can work together for the Kingdom of God and His glory without all the diatribes. It is of course how the SBC was established :)
     
  16. Victorious

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    Yes, both sides. Can we stop now? LOL!
     
  17. Johnv

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    They shouldn't. Neither Calvinism nor Arminianism are core scriptural essentials. As such, they're subject to liberty. Whether one adheres to Calvinism or Arminianism, it's not a matter of heresy at all.
     
  18. ReformedBaptist

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    Well, I guess you don't like Spurgeon then. :laugh:
     
  19. Johnv

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    I like Spurgeon just fine, especially with some tartar sauce.. Oh wait, that's Sturgeon. Nevermind.
     
  20. Jon-Marc

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    I had a non-Calvinist pastor once who loved Spurgeon's books. I was with that pastor's church for 20 years.
     

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