How many of the RC stations of the cross are Biblical?

Discussion in 'Free-For-All Archives' started by Russ Kelly, Mar 26, 2004.

  1. Russ Kelly

    Russ Kelly
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    Definitely not in the Bible:
    1. Jesus' 1st fall.
    2. Jesus' 2nd fall.
    3. Jesus' 3rd fall.
    4. Jesus' meeting his mother en route to Calvary.
    5. Jesus' meeting "Veronica" en route to Calvary.
    6. Mary holding the body of Jesus.
    Any more?
     
  2. neal4christ

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    Great....yet another person looking for exhaustive history in God's Word. [​IMG]

    In Christ,
    Neal
     
  3. frozencell

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    Dear Russ,

    Your post is a very transparent attempt at trapping Catholics. To look to the Bible as exhaustive history you are negating it's very words when it refers to not even all of Jesus' miracles are contained in the Bible. But, we can look to other sound, factual historical documents which record such happenings. And, by the way, none of the Stations you posted are anti-Biblical or contradictory to Scripture in any way.
     
  4. Brother Adam

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    John 20:30 (ESV)
    Now Jesus did many other signs in the presence of the disciples, which are not written in this book;
     
  5. Living4Him

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    Have you ever looked into the Stations of the Cross? What does it matter if they are not all listed in the Bible?

    Opening Scripture Reading:

    Luke 9:22-24 "The Son of Man is destined to suffer grievously, to be rejected, and to be raised up on the third day. If anyone wants to be a follower of Mine, let him renounce himself and take up his cross every day and follow Me. For anyone who wants to save his life will lose it; but anyone who loses his life for My sake, that man will save it"

    Opening Prayer:
    Lord Jesus, Help me to be open to your closeness and presence as I begin this journey to Calvary with you. Help me to find in your Passion and Death the strength to take up my cross and follow after you.

    Before each Meditation:
    I adore you, Lord Jesus, and I praise you. Because by your holly cross, you have redeemed the world.

    After each Meditation:
    Our Father, Hail Mary, Glory Be

    1. Jesus is condemned to die
    MEDITATION: Lord Jesus, often I judge others and fail to be understanding or loving. Help me to see the people in my life through Your eyes, not the eyes of Pontius Pilate.

    2. Jesus willingly takes up His Cross
    MEDITATION: Lord Jesus, You embraced Your cross to redeem the world. Help me to embrace the crosses in life-the hardships, struggles, disappointments, and pain. Only by recognizing my own weakness, can I discover Your strength.

    3. Jesus falls for the First Time
    MEDITATION: Lord Jesus, You know how often I fall trying to follow You. Yet, You are always there to lift me up. Help me always to trust in Your loving care for me.

    4. Jesus meets His Blessed Mother
    MEDITATION: Lord Jesus, Your mother Mary's grief was surpassed by her love for you. So often You come to me in others and their love gives me new life. Help me to see how often You love me through the people in my life.

    5. Simon helps Jesus carry His Cross
    MEDITATION: Lord Jesus, sometimes I am indifferent to the needs of others in my life. I even neglect those whom I love. Help me to see that loving others is the surest way to find You in my life.

    6. Veronica wipes the Holy Face of Jesus
    MEDITATION: Lord Jesus, at times I am afraid to reach out to others. I do nothing when I should act; I say nothing when I should speak out. Give me a deeper and more courageous faith. Help me to trust that You are with me.

    7. Jesus falls for the Second Time
    MEDITATION: Lord Jesus, failure and disappointment sometimes lead me to despair. I hide behind my pride and self-pity, withdrawing from You and others. Give me the hope I need and help me never to be afraid to begin again.

    8. Jesus comforts the Women
    MEDITATION: Lord Jesus, Your great compassion for others overwhelms me. I feel petty and selfish when I think of You and the way You love. Help me to pour out my love, that You might fill me with Your Love.

    9. Jesus falls for the Third Time
    MEDITATION: Lord Jesus, Your failing strength makes me see how helpless I am. Without You, I can do nothing. Help me to rely on Your strength, to see how much I need You.

    10. Jesus is stripped of His garments
    MEDITATION: Lord Jesus, seeing You so cruelly humiliated makes me realize how I cling to my accomplishments, my possessions, my way. Help me to let go of those things in my life that prevent me from growing closer to You and others.

    11. Jesus is nailed to the Cross
    MEDITATION: Lord Jesus, I can never doubt Your great love for me when I see You crucified. Help me to see Your cross as the great sign of Your love for me.

    12. Jesus dies on the Cross
    MEDITATION: Lord Jesus, Your broken and lifeless body calls me to deeper faith. You chose death, even death on the cross. Help me to see my crosses as ways of loving You.

    13. Jesus is taken down from the Cross
    MEDITATION: Lord Jesus, seeing Your body taken from the cross reminds me how fearful I am of letting go of my own life. I am frightened when I think of being unimportant, useless, and helpless. Help me to place my life in Your hands.

    14. Jesus is Laid in the Tomb
    MEDITATION: Lord Jesus, when I see the great stone sealing Your tomb, I feel alone and abandoned. Even though You sometimes seem distant or absent in my life, help me always to believe in Your closeness and loving presence

    Closing Scripture Reading:

    Luke 24:1-8 "On the first day of the week, at the first sign of dawn, they went to the tomb with spices they had prepared. They found that the stone had been rolled away from the tomb, but on entering they discovered that the body of the Lord Jesus was not there. As they stood there not knowing what to think, two men in brilliant clothes suddenly appeared at their side. Terrified, the women lowered their eyes. But the two men said to them, 'Why look among the dead for someone who is alive? He is not here; He has risen. Remember what He told you when He was still in Galilee: that the Son of Man had to be handed over to the power of sinful men, be crucified, and rise again on the third day?' And they remembered His words"

    Closing Prayer:
    Lord Jesus, help me to walk with You each day of my life, even to Calvary. The sorrow and joy, the pain and healings, the failures and triumphs of my life are truly small deaths and resurrections that lead me to closeness with You. Give me the faith and trust I need to walk with You always. Amen.

    I don't know anyone who wouldn't benefit saying these prayers. I know I sure do.
     
  6. Russ Kelly

    Russ Kelly
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    The paper tiger has been defeated.

    Where did I even imply that the Bible is exhaustive history? Is itd some kind of sin to make people aware of what IS in the Bible and what IS NOT in the Bible?

    I fully agree that a lot of things that are not in the Bible actually occurred. As a matter of fact, it is my opinion that "most likely" many of the six stations I mentioned PROBABLY did occur.

    This began with me AFTER I hd studied the 14 stations of the cross! I asked a religiously mixed group of about 50 persons how many times does the Bible say that Jesus fell? Although only about 5 in the group were Catholic, almost all of them answered 3.

    I have no agrument with Catholicism as long as you do not expect me to think that the RC Church's interpretation of history is equally as authentic as the Bible.

    The problem is that most RCs and many Protestants think that the Bible teachess all 14 of the stations of the cross. To me, this is a sign that most RCs and Protestants have never bothered to study this for themselves in God's Word.

    It would benefit all of us if this thread would result in more study of God's Word.
     
  7. donnA

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    what factual documents written during that time record the events sited in the stations of the cross?
     
  8. frozencell

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    Where did the Stations of the Cross come from? After Jesus died and rose from the dead, many people reflected upon his passion and death. They began to make visits to Jerusalem and walk in Jesus' footsteps. The street Jesus walked is still called Via Dolorosa, the way of pain. People would stop along the way and remember what had happened to Jesus. It is likely that they marked the places for those who came after them to follow as well. These people became known as "pilgrims."

    As Christianity spread throughout the know world, distance made it nearly impossible for people to make the trip to Jerusalem. That didn't stop their need to know and remember. By the twelfth century the fervor of the Crusades and a heightened devotion to the Passion of Jesus crated a demand in Europe for representations of the last events in Jesus' life.

    When the Franciscans took over the custody of the shrines in the Holy Land in 1342, they saw it as their mission to encourage devotion to these places. In western Europe a series of shrines erected to help the faithful remember Christ's passion became commonplace. They were erected outside Churches and monasteries and in other places as well. For many years there was a considerable variety in the number and title of these "stations." The current number of fourteen first appeared in the Low Countries in the sixteenth century and became standard in the eighteenth century with a series of papal pronouncements.

    Oral Tradition. But I don't expect you to believe that. After all, "traditions" are only a Catholic thing.
     
  9. mioque

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    "6. Mary holding the body of Jesus."
    That's not one of the Stations of the Cross, that's the Piéta.
     
  10. Jude

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    from creighton.edu


    From the earliest of days, followers of Jesus told the story of his passion, death and resurrection.  When pilgrims came to see Jerusalem, they were anxious to see the sites where Jesus was.  These sites become important holy connections with Jesus.  Eventually, following in the footsteps of the Lord, along the way of the cross, became a part of the pilgrimage visit.  The stations, as we know them today, came about when it was no longer easy or even possible to visit the holy sites.  In the 1500's, villages all over Europe started creating "replicas" of the way of the cross, with small shrines commemorating the places along the route in Jerusalem.  Eventually, these shrines became the set of 14 stations we now know and were placed in almost every Catholic Church in the world
     
  11. neal4christ

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    I apologize for jumping to a conclusion, Russ. Please forgive me.

    In Christ,
    Neal
     
  12. Russ Kelly

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    Neal
    Apology accepted, my brother.

    Since many things exist as tradition for centuries before they are accepted as fact, I can imagine that Jesus fell 3 times, met his mother, and had his brow wiped by a woman later called Veronica). Since the Bible is silent, I have no grounds to deny these events occurred.

    However, the Bible is not silent about the station which portrays Mary holding the body of Jesus. After John 19:25 His mother is seen no more. Matthew 27:56; 28:1; Mark 15:40; 16:1; and Luke 24:10 all list Mary Magdaalene first. It is inconceiveable to me that Mary, the mother of Jesus, would not be included in these lists if she were indeed present.

    God saw fit in His mercy to have John remove Jesus' earthly mother from teh horrors of His death.
     
  13. donnA

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    What I don't expect you to understand is that oral traditions are not scripture, and should never be treated as such.
     
  14. Brother Adam

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    Nooo....but someone did once say....

    So then, brothers, stand firm and hold to the traditions that you were taught by us, either by our spoken word or by our letter. 2 Thes. 2:15
     
  15. frozencell

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    Donna,

    We have showed you where it originated. I don't understand your claim.

    Russ,

    Mary holding Jesus' body isn't a Station of the Cross.
     
  16. Russ Kelly

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    Frozen
    Are you telling me that, if I went into a lot of Roman Catholic Churches and looked at the station of the cross where Christ was removed, that I would not find engravings, paintings, etc, etc, etc of Mary holding the body of Christ? I have attended many a Mass and am quite observant, even though legally blind.
     
  17. Gina B

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    Enough people!
    I have deleted the irrelevant posts. From now on stay on topic and keep your personal issues with each other to yourselves via pm.
    Gina
     
  18. mioque

    mioque
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    Russ
    "Are you telling me that, if I went into a lot of Roman Catholic Churches and looked at the station of the cross where Christ was removed, that I would not find engravings, paintings, etc, etc, etc of Mary holding the body of Christ?"
    No we both mean that the 13th station is called: "Jezus is taken down from the cross.", not:"Mary holding the body of Jesus."
    The whole Mary holding the body of Jezus thing is there to squeeze in the imagery of the piëta (or Piéta) somewhere into the event.
    The meaning of the piëta is symbolical, it is the opposite end of mother Mary holding the baby Jezus. Coming full circle so to speak.
     
  19. Russ Kelly

    Russ Kelly
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    Mioque
    If RCs can accept your answer, then I can accept it also. I checked Google under "stations of the cross" and the very first one connected Mary holding the body with this station of the cross.

    It is sort of like George Washington (the first U.S. president when he was young) cutting down the cherry tree and admitting it because he could not tell a lie. Whether he actually did it or not is irrelevant -- his true character is revealed.
     
  20. mioque

    mioque
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    Russ
    "and the very first one connected Mary holding the body with this station of the cross."
    It's the only place where that image can be fit in with the events.

    "Whether he actually did it or not is irrelevant -- his true character is revealed. "
    It is surprising how often metaphorical stuff has a literal expression in Catholic tradition.
     

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