How much money do MV's bring in VS how much money does KJV bring in?

Discussion in 'Bible Versions/Translations' started by Ivon Denosovich, Feb 8, 2008.

  1. Ivon Denosovich

    Ivon Denosovich
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    One of the most common complaints I've heard about the MVs is that they're popped out of "translation factories" simply for cash without respect/concern for God or His Word. (For the record, obsene profits don't bother me.) I'm curious how lucrative the Bible industry is. I'm also curious if it's true that the MVs bring in substantially more money than the KJV, which IIRC, is the best selling English translation of all time.
     
  2. Rippon

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    Okay , what does "IIRC" mean ?

    The NIV has been the best selling English translation ( not a revision of a revision of a revision of a ... like the KJV ) for about 30 years or so . The KJV still sells well . Many copies are given away or are sold dirt-cheap .
     
  3. Ivon Denosovich

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    IIRC = If I Recall Correctly

    You bring up an interesting point, Rippon, about Bibles being given away. Come to think of it, my church has probably given away hundreds of NLTse's, but I'm assuming we still initially bought them from Tyndale or from someone else who bought them from Tyndale. So the "translation factories" themselves may have made quite a profit.

    How is it that KJV-only-ers (real term?) claim "greed" fuels the new translations/revisions?

    ETA: Oh, and overall is the NIV the bestelling translation in the history of English Bibles?
     
    #3 Ivon Denosovich, Feb 8, 2008
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 8, 2008
  4. Salamander

    Salamander
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    Don't know, don't care. The love of money is THE root of ALL evil.
     
  5. Askjo

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    I read the report by a scholar concerning two words: Change and Survive.

    The change is the road to profits in free-enterprise system. Any publishers such as Thomas Nelson publisher demand the successful marketing of books and bibles with profit. In fact, these entire publishing industries are traveling this road to riches use of continuous revisionism of their copyrighted editions of the Word. What mostly frustrate these Christian businesses is that they are in order to survive because of the change demanding the profits. This successful marketing with profits demands what to change and how to survive.
     
  6. readmore

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    Even sexual immorality?
     
  7. Salamander

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    When one defines money completely as what brings gain to another, yes, even sexual immorality falls under that heading of the love of money/gain.

    Our word of God is alive and refuses to die at the hands of intellectual supremacy!

    Money is gain, is it not?
     
  8. Ivon Denosovich

    Ivon Denosovich
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    Since the Bible itself is the greatest gain for man is it also the greatest cause of sin?
     
  9. TC

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    I have heard that complaint as well. It is a silly one that can be easily refuted by a trip to the bookstore. KJV's cost just as much as any other Bible translations on the shelf. Printers would not make them if they did not bring in a profit. Many organizations give Bibles to people for free, but someone still pays for them - even KJV's. Printers do not make them for free.
     
  10. readmore

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    Oh, heh, I see. You just have to redefine a word.
     
  11. sag38

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    TC, you the man. Some will use any argument whether legitimate or not to support their point of view. My KJV study bible, bound in leather, and gold trimmed, cost a pretty penny. Those evil printers printed for evil gain. I guess I should throw it in the trash as it is tainted by capitalism.
     
  12. robycop3

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    Don't forget it prolly has a few mean ole COPYRIGHTS in it! (Filthy lucre makerzz!)
     
  13. Pastor_Bob

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    I can name for you at least 3 organizations that print and give away several thousand KJV Bibles each year. The Bibles are printed as a ministry of a local church at no expense whatsoever to the recipient.

    This ministry, http://www.beamsbibles.com/, buys Bibles at a fraction of the cost and gives them away.
     
  14. Trotter

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    But the church is paying for them even those the recipients aren't. The publisher/printer is still being paid.

    I seriously doubt that there are any har numbers out there on this subject, but it is true... both the KJV and MV's are sold, and both make the printer money. Period.

    There's one argument out the window. Especially if you go back and add up how much the KJV has made its printers since it began. Haven't we heard about how the KJV is the best because it has been around so long? By the time you add it all up, the KJV will have made the printers a lot of lucre.

    Now, that's all tongue in cheek, but some here are deadly serious about it. Anything to smear what's not carried under your own arm. No wonder the lost want nothing to do with Christianity... too many are busy sniping at the other. If I weren't already a part of the Body, I know I wouldn't want any part of people who act like that.
     
  15. Palatka51

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    Be very careful Pastor Bob. If this ministry is printing anyones reference material or notations it may be in violation of Federal Copy Right laws and may one day be forced to come up with royalties even though these Bibles are KJV or a MV.

    This is why the Gideons have a printing press and distribute only Gideon Bibles in the KJV. They can not do this with a MV as they would have to pay royalties to what ever printing house marketed a MV.
     
  16. Palatka51

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    I will gladly pay royalties for reference material that will accompany a KJV be it from Nelson, Holman, Thomas or Zondervan. There is a KJV Bible from Cambridge University that has no center reference, no maps and no notations. Apart from it's Preface you can photo copy it's pages and sell it on Ebay with no threat of copy right infringement. I seriously doubt that you would make a dime on it. Cambridge can not recover one cent but for the initial sell. However if you take the RSV, NLT, NIT or any other MV you are obligated to pay all royalties to the printing house who introduced it as well to all of the contributing editors and translators if you copy one verse of it to use on a tract.

    Now mind you, I think that the majority of these printing houses and their contributors have good intentions and do not have a copy right police corps. However The potential for abuse exist and how do we know that their motives are honorable. Have any of us seen the documents used to compile their MV? Do we just take their word that they've used honored manuscripts? The answer is no none of us know unless there are some here that have contributed to a MV then you can answer yes. To the rest of us the test of a version is not how much money it has brought in to a printing houses coffers. It is the test of time and endurance of blood that is proof that a version is God Honored. If in 400 years these MV's are still around and widely accepted by the common man then they fall into that criteria. Why even the KJV had to go through this test and its editors saw that it would have to.

    THE TRANSLATORS TO THE READER
    Preface to the King James Version 1611

    (Not Copyrighted)
    THE BEST THINGS HAVE BEEN CALUMNIATED
    Zeal to promote the common good, whether it be by devising anything ourselves, or revising that which hath been laboured by others, deserveth certainly much respect and esteem, but yet findeth but cold entertainment in the world. It is welcomed with suspicion instead of love, and with emulation instead of thanks: and if there be any hole left for cavil to enter, (and cavil, if it do not find a hole, will make one) it is sure to be misconstrued, and in danger to be condemned. This will easily be granted by as many as know story, or have any experience. For, was there ever any-projected, that savoured any way of newness or renewing, but the same endured many a storm of gainsaying, or opposition? A man would think that Civility, wholesome Laws, learning and eloquence, Synods, and Church-maintenance, (that we speak of no more things of this kind) should be as safe as a Sanctuary, and out of shot, as they say, that no man would lift up the heel, no, nor dog move his tongue against the motioners of them. For by the first, we are distinguished from brute beasts lead with sensuality; By the second, we are bridled and restrained from outrageous behaviour, and from doing of injuries, whether by fraud or by violence; By the third, we are enabled to inform and reform others, by the light and feeling that we have attained unto ourselves; Briefly, by the fourth being brought together to a parley face to face, we sooner compose our differences than by writings which are endless; And lastly, that the Church be sufficiently provided for, is so agreeable to good reason and conscience, that those mothers are holden to be less cruel, that kill their children as soon as they are born, than those nursing fathers and mothers (wheresoever they be) that withdraw from them who hang upon their breasts (and upon whose breasts again themselves do hang to receive the Spiritual and sincere milk of the word) livelihood and support fit for their estates. Thus it is apparent, that these things which we speak of, are of most necessary use, and therefore, that none, either without absurdity can speak against them, or without note of wickedness can spurn against them.

    Yet for all that, the learned know that certain worthy men [Anacharsis with others] have been brought to untimely death for none other fault, but for seeking to reduce their Countrymen to god order and discipline; and that in some Commonwealths [e.g. Locri] it was made a capital crime, once to motion the making of a new Law for the abrogating of an old, though the same were most pernicious; And that certain [Cato the elder], which would be counted pillars of the State, and patterns of Virtue and Prudence, could not be brought for a long time to give way to good Letters and refined speech, but bare themselves as averse from them, as from rocks or boxes of poison; And fourthly, that he was no babe, but a great clerk [Gregory the Divine], that gave forth (and in writing to remain to posterity) in passion peradventure, but yet he gave forth, that he had not seen any profit to come by any Synod, or meeting of the Clergy, but rather the contrary; And lastly, against Church-maintenance and allowance, in such sort, as the Ambassadors and messengers of the great King of Kings should be furnished, it is not unknown what a fiction or fable (so it is esteemed, and for no better by the reporter himself [Nauclerus], though superstitious) was devised; Namely, that at such a time as the professors and teachers of Christianity in the Church of Rome, then a true Church, were liberally endowed, a voice forsooth was heard from heaven, saying: Now is poison poured down into the Church, etc. Thus not only as oft as we speak, as one saith, but also as oft as we do anything of note or consequence, we subject ourselves to everyone's censure, and happy is he that is least tossed upon tongues; for utterly to escape the snatch of them it is impossible. If any man conceit, that this is the lot and portion of the meaner sort only, and that Princes are privileged by their high estate, he is deceived. "As the sword devoureth as well one as the other," as it is in Samuel [2 Sam 11:25], nay as the great Commander charged his soldiers in a certain battle, to strike at no part of the enemy, but at the face; And as the King of Syria commanded his chief Captains to "fight neither with small nor great, save only against the King of Israel:" [1 Kings 22:31] so it is too true, that Envy striketh most spitefully at the fairest, and at the chiefest. David was a worthy Prince, and no man to be compared to him for his first deeds, and yet for as worthy as act as ever he did (even for bringing back the Ark of God in solemnity) he was scorned and scoffed at by his own wife [2 Sam 6:16]. Solomon was greater than David, though not in virtue, yet in power: and by his power and wisdom he built a Temple to the Lord, such a one as was the glory of the land of Israel, and the wonder of the whole world. But was that his magnificence liked of by all? We doubt it. Otherwise, why do they lay it in his son's dish, and call unto him for easing the burden, "Make", say they, "the grievous servitude of thy father, and his sore yoke, lighter?" [1 Kings 12:4] Belike he had charged them with some levies, and troubled them with some carriages; Hereupon they raise up a tragedy, and wish in their heart the Temple had never been built. So hard a thing it is to please all, even when we please God best, and do seek to approve ourselves to every ones conscience.

    If we will descend to later times, we shall find many the like examples of such kind, or rather unkind acceptance. The first Roman Emperor [C. Caesar. Plutarch] did never do a more pleasing deed to the learned, nor more profitable to posterity, for conserving the record of times in true supputation; than when he corrected the Calendar, and ordered the year according to the course of the Sun; and yet this was imputed to him for novelty, and arrogance, and procured to him great obloguy. So the first Christened Emperor [Constantine] (at the least- wise that openly professed the faith himself, and allowed others to do the like) for strengthening the Empire at his great charges, and pro- viding for the Church, as he did, got for his labour the name Pupillus, as who would say, a wasteful Prince, that had need of a Guardian or overseer [Aurel. Victor]. So the best Christened Emperor [Theodosius], for the love that he bare unto peace, thereby to enrich both himself and his subjects, and because he did not see war but find it, was judged to be no man at arms [Zosimus], (though indeed he excelled in feats of chivalry, and showed so much when he was provoked) and con- demned for giving himself to his ease, and to his pleasure. To be short, the most learned Emperor of former times [Justinian], (at the least, the greatest politician) what thanks had he for cutting off the superfluities of the laws, and digesting them into some order and method? This, that he had been blotted by some to be an Epitomist, that is, one that extinguishes worthy whole volumes, to bring his abridgments into request. This is the measure that hath been rendered to excellent Princes in former times, even, Cum bene facerent, male audire, For their good deeds to be evil spoken of. Neither is there any likelihood, that envy and malignity died, and were buried with the ancient. No, no, the reproof of Moses taketh hold of most ages; "You are risen up in your fathers' stead, and increase of sinful men." [Num 32:14] "What is that that hath been done? that which shall be done; and there is no new thing under the Sun," saith the wiseman: [Ecc 1:9] and S. Stephen, "As your fathers did, so do you." [Acts 7:51]
     
  17. 4His_glory

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    Are you sure about that? I have personally seen Gideon NKJVs and NIVs.
     
  18. EdSutton

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    Not on all so-called MVs.

    Several of those have also already passed into the public domain, such as the ASV, DARBY, YLT, WEB, among others, and I also believe perhaps that the AAT (Goodspeed) , Mof, Berk, and the RSV, may possibly be in this category, in the United States. (Don't confuse the Berk with the New Berkeley aka MLB, or likewise the RSV with the NRSV in this, however.) Certainly, the 'Fenton', and the NTs of Weymouth and Moffett, are also in the public domain, among others.

    Actually, anything published before 1923 is in the public domain, by law. And there are some varied nuances to things published after that date, including the death of the author, or authors.

    Generally speaking, the later the publication, the more likely it is to be under copyright.

    But I assure you, you can print and sell the ASV, DARBY or YLT completely legally, for three better known examples of MV.

    Incidentally, and a bit off the subject, the KJV we use in our church is a Nelson, with only a couple of maps at the end, and that Bible is copyrighted fairly recently, as well. As I said, there are many nuances to copyright law.

    Enough of the derail: Now, back to our regularly scheduled argument.

    Ed
     
  19. EdSutton

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    There would be nothing prohibiting the Gideons from paying any requsite royalties, as far as I know. :confused:

    Ed
     
  20. EdSutton

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    FTR, Pastor_Bob said the ministry he gave the link for was "buying" these Bibles, not printing them.
    He said three others were "printing" Bibles.

    Ed
     

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