How Much of the Land Do Gentiles Get?

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by J.D., Dec 19, 2008.

  1. J.D.

    J.D.
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    Genesis 17:8 (KJV) And I will give unto thee, and to thy seed after thee, the land wherein thou art a stranger, all the land of Canaan, for an everlasting possession; and I will be their God.

    Romans 9:4 (KJV) Who are Israelites; to whom pertaineth the adoption, and the glory, and the covenants, and the giving of the law, and the service of God, and the promises;

    Ephesians 3:6 (KJV) That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel:

    According to these verses, we Gentiles are going to inherit Canaan along with the Israelites. Does anyone know where in Israel our land is? I'd like to take a trip over there and see it.


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  2. OldRegular

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    Stay off the East Bank.
     
  3. J.D.

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    I just hope my place is in the country - I hate city living.
     
  4. canadyjd

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    Probably about 25 miles due east of Jerusalem.

    peace to you:praying:
     
  5. Pastor Larry

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    Not following you here. You say these verses show that the Gentiles will inherit the land along with Israel, but I don't see that in the verses you cite. The only verse you cite about the Gentiles refers to their inclusion in the gospel as the verse says. I don't see anything there about the land.

    The only verse about the land is about Abraham's seed, which in Genesis 17 is specifically defined as the seed of his own body, not Eleazar which would have been not of his body. So the passage you cite actually says that Abraham's seed with respect to the land promise is his genetic seed.

    Perhaps you could explain.
     
  6. DeafPosttrib

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    Larry,

    Let's see what Genesis chapter 17 saying.

    Gen. 17:2 - "And I will make my covenant between me and thee, and will muitiply thee exceedingly."

    Befofe God called Abraham, he was not a Jew, he was a man like us as Gentile. When God called him, God doesn't say to him that he is Jew. Till he was called to leave land of Ur. When he obeyed God's call. He was not the same person who refuse to worship idols, and not compromising with the world. When people see Abraham act differently like as he was act truly Christian way, I believe they did called him 'Hebrew'- Gen. 14:13. That why, 'Hebrew' is common word for Jew.

    Anyway, Gen. 17:2 tells us God made covenat with Abraham that he will get great blessing from God. Because Abraham did obeyed God's call.

    Gen. 17:4 - "As for me, behold, my covenant is with thee, and thou shalt be a father of MANY NATIONS."

    God didn't say to him that he is the father of Jews. God told him that he is the father of 'many nations'. Therefore, he is the father of the Jews & Gentiles. This is speaking of spiritual seed.

    Gen. 17:5-7 "Neither shall thy name any more be called Abram, but thy name shall be Abraham; for a father of many nations have I made thee. And I will make thee exceeding fruitful, and I will make nations of thee, and kings, shall come out of thee. And I will establish my covenant between me and thee and thy seed after thee in their generations for any everlasting covenant, to be a God unto thee, and to thy seed after thee. And I will give unto thee, and to thy seed after thee, the land wherein thou art a stranger, all the land of Canaan, for an everlasting possession, and I will be their God."

    This passage tells us, God made promise to Abraham, that his name was changed from Abram to Abraham. This is the picute of new life like as we were born again as "new creature" like as salvation. His seed is speaking of his generations(physical) shall be begat throughout generations toward Jesus Christ. This is the picture of salvation. This passage didn't saying that he is the father of Jews only, God told him, he is the father of 'many nations', well it speak of Gentiles.

    God did told him that his generations shall possess the land of Canaan. And it did fulfilled during Joshua's time.

    Also, this is not only speak of future unfulfilling promise of Jews will finally possess their own land again(literal physical). But it speaking of the promise is come upon Jesus Christ - salvation.

    Galatinas 3:7-9 "Know ye therefore that they which are of faith, he same are the chiildren of Abraham. And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall ALL NATIONS be blessed. So then they which be of faith are blessed with faithful Abraham."

    The importantly is, why does Abraham got the blessing? Why does Jews of O.T. got their blessing? Because of their faith according Hebrews chapter 11. If without have faith, then they would not receive blessing from God.

    Abraham did obeyed God throughout all his life till death as he did walked in his faith. That why he was counted as righteous. Also, many fathers of Abraham's seeds were did walk in their faith. They did received blessiong. Also, the descendant from Abraham through Marythat they did kept God's Word in their faith. Mary did finally begat Jesus by the Holy Spirit came into her womb, as it fulfilled God's covenant with Abraham.

    Galatians 3:14 "That the blessing of Abraham might come on GENTILES THROUGH Jesus Christ, that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith."

    This is speaking of salvation in Jesus Christ by through our faith.

    Apostle Paul was not suggest or say anything that Jews will finally possess their own actual land again in the future. Rather, he was speaking of salvation through Jesus Christ.

    ***Galatians 3:16 "Now to Abraham and his seed were the promise made. He saith not, And to seeds as of many, but as of one, And to thy seed, WHICH IS CHRIS."

    The issue of seed is not about physical possess Jewish land, the issue of seed is all about Jesus Christ - salvation.

    Galatians 3:26 "For ye are ALL the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus."

    This verse points that we are all children of God by through our faith in Jesus Christ - salvation.

    Galatians 3:28 "There is neither Jew nor Greek, there neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are ALL ONE IN CHRIST JESUS."

    This verse prove us that God only have one family whoever believe in Jesus, we are on the same boat - salvation. Therefore, Church is Israel, Israel is Church. No divisions within the body of Jesus Christ.

    In Christ
    Rev. 22:20 -Amen!
     
  7. Amy.G

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    If this verse is speaking strictly of physical land, then their possession was not everlasting, because they lost it many times. The physical land is a shadow of the heavenly "land" which all of God's people, both Jew and Gentile will possess. Just as the animal sacrifices were a shadow of the once for all sacrifice of Jesus Christ. When the new covenant came through Christ, God ended the animal sacrifices and destroyed the temple, and the "land" was possessed by Gentiles. The physical land was not everlasting, but only a shadow of the heavenly land which is everlasting.

    It's like saying when you are saved you receive "eternal" life, but that life can be lost. If one loses their "eternal" life, it was never eternal to begin with. Everlasting possessions cannot be lost, therefore this verse if referring to the eternal land of God's people, which is the new Jerusalem which comes down from heaven to the new earth.....all of which is everlasting, and only possessed by God's children. An unbeliever will never set foot on this land.
     
  8. OldRegular

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    Frankly if I am going to have to live in this old sinful world after I receive my resurrection body I would prefer some place like Cades Cove in eastern Tennessee, that is, unless Amy has already got dibs on that place.
     
  9. Amy.G

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    :laugh: No, but that's a great idea! Cades Cove is several miles east of me, but one year our family went up there (back when you could drive yourself through it) and saw my first black bear up close! It ran across the road right in front of our car and stopped at the edge of the road. Those guys are BIG! I'll never forget it. It ranks right up there with the bobcat that strolled across my backyard a couple of years ago while I was sitting on the back porch. :eek: Then there's the coyotes that like to wander around here, deer, herons, woody woodpecker, snakes, bats (one sleeps on my front porch during the day)........I like living in the country. :tongue3:
    God made some really cool stuff.
     
  10. Pastor Larry

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    You make this too easy:

    The reason it is still future is because they did lose it. As Jer 31 and Gal 3 reminds us, the promise was not made null by their breaking of the Law. The promise is still good. If Israel doesn't inherit the land for an 'olam possession, then the promise of God goes unfulfilled.

    However, Cade's Cove is a nice place ...
     
  11. Amy.G

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    So you don't see that there is a spiritual application to this? The land is purely physical? They already received the promise of physical land, did they not? The land that the OT saints looked forward to was a heavenly land. I still don't see how one can lose something that is eternal.
     
  12. OldRegular

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    You are correct Amy as Hebrews 11 shows.
     
  13. Pastor Larry

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    Read this and you tell me what it sounds like: On that day the LORD made a covenant with Abram, saying, "To your descendants I have given this land, From the river of Egypt as far as the great river, the river Euphrates: the Kenite and the Kenizzite and the Kadmonite and the Hittite and the Perizzite and the Rephaim and the Amorite and the Canaanite and the Girgashite and the Jebusite."

    No, they were evicted from it for disobedience, and long after that the prophets prophesied (under inspiration) that they would be restored to it.

    That was not the only land they looked forward to. To look forward to one thing does not mean that they do not look forward to another thing. It is possible to look forward to two things. I think part of the problem is that you highlight one thing at the expense of another (as OR and several others do). You get fixated on one thing and minimize or ignore the whole counsel of Scripture on the matter.

    By failing to keep the covenant. The loss is only temporary, as Deuteronomy says (I know this is long but it directly answers your question):

     
  14. Amy.G

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    Pastor Larry,

    Wasn't this fulfilled when the Jews returned to the land after the 70 years of Babylonian captivity?



    When do you believe this promise will be fulfilled? In the MK?
     
  15. DeafPosttrib

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    Larry,

    Deut. 29:22-30:6 already fulfilled that Joshua already did possessed the land of Canaan in Joshua 22:9 "And the children of Reuben and the children of Gad and the half tribe of Manasseh returned, and departed from the children of Israel out of Shiloh, which is in the land of Canaan, to go unto the country of Gilead, to the land of their possession, whereof they were possessed, according to the word of the LORD by the hand of Moses."

    Joshua's army did took over cities and lands throughout wars after they acorss Jordan River, to take over the land of Canaan. It did fulfilled Joshua 1:4.

    Not only Joshua, also, King David did possessed land from great river of Egypt to Euphrates River in 2 Samuel 8:3.

    But later, Israel rebelled against God, so, God punished Israel by allow Babylon to took over Jerusalem.

    Jeremiah the prophet wrote that book that was period before Babylon take over Jerusalem. He warned Israel that Babylon shall take over Jerusalem because of their disobedience. But, also he told them that God shall restored their land when after they repent of their sins.

    In Jer. 30:7 predicted that Israe shall have trouble, and they shall be take over by Babylon - Jer. 29:20. That why, it called, "Jacob's trouble" was already fulfilled in year around 520 B.C. 'Jacob's trouble' have do nothing with future supposed 'Seven year of Tribulation Period' for Israel(literal physical Jewish nation). Jer. 30:7 already fulfilled by Babylon took over Jerusalem, because of their rebellion against God.

    But, Jer. 30:7b says, "...but he shall be saved out of it." It already fulfilled by Ezra & Nehemiah period. That Jews did actual returned back to their land and rebuilt the temple and walls round around the city.

    Hebrews 11:8-10 "By faith Abraham, when he was called to go out into a place which he should after receive for an inheritance, obeyed, and he went out, not knowing whither he went. By faith he sojourned in the land of promise, as in a strange country, dwelling in tabernacles with Isaac and Jacob, the heirs with him of the same promise: For he looked for a city which hath foundations, whose builder and maker is God."

    This passage tells us, Abraham's faith that he went and obeyed God's call, not know where to go. He just obeyed God by his faith. This passage doesn't say that Abraham was looking for earthly land or nation. This passage tells us, Abraham was looking for eternality kingdom - New Jerusalem, which was made by God. He eas looking forward for heavenly city.

    Even, now all Jews and Gentiles are share the same blessing and inheritance which Abraham received - salvation in Jesus Christ that we shall dwell in New Jerusalem where God dwells.

    Heb. 11:16 "But NOW they desire a better country, that is an heavenly, wherefore God is not ashamed to be called their God: for he hath prepared for them a city."

    This verse tells us, O.T. saints now have a better country, which speaking of New Jerusalem, where God dwells there.

    Nowhere in the New Testament say that Jews shall finally possess old earthly Modern Jerusalem and its shall be old earth's world capitol during 1000 years.

    Bible teaching us clear that this old earth include Old Jerusalem shall be burned away by fire follow at Second Coming, so, we are earnest looking for new heavens and a new earth- 2 Peter 3:10-13.

    Christ doesn't need old physical earthly Jerusalem or Jewish nation again inn the future. Because it is mortal and wicked. It will be destroyed completely at His coming. SO, Christ will create new heavens and a new earth, then He will send New Jerusalem down from third heaven to put it on new earth, and we shall reign there with Christ for forever and ever.

    In Christ
    Rev. 22:20 -Amen!
     
  16. J.D.

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    Sorry I didn't stay with the thread. I had intened to log back on Friday night and continue posting but the Lord had different plans.

    Anyway, Eph 2 says that we Gentiles inherit the promises along with Israel. Wasn't Israel promised land? So we get land too, right?
     
    #16 J.D., Dec 21, 2008
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 21, 2008
  17. Bob Farnaby

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    It will be in the new earth ... where all the land is the Lord's, and used for His people.... only His people will e there, and it will be the perfect recreation. Probably just down the road from the mansion God is preparing for you :)

    Regards
    Bob
     
  18. J.D.

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    Well I wonder what happens to the rest of the world if all unbeliever are in the lake of fire and all believers are living forever in the land of Canaan (Israel). I guess it's uninhabited.
     
  19. Martin Luther

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    Since the church is future Israel, the outer court is for flesh and blood people born after the return of Christ. Gentile is a referrence to ones spiritual condition and not ones blood type.
     

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