<<<How nonsensical can it get?>>>

Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by Gerhard Ebersoehn, Jun 29, 2015.

  1. Gerhard Ebersoehn

    Gerhard Ebersoehn
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    Vooks:

    How nonsensical can it get?
    Sunday starts on Saturday evening, ends in the evening. Let's look at all the trips to the grave

    GE:

    <<All the trips>>?
    Quoting Vooks:
    <<<John 20:1 (KJV)
    The first day of the week cometh Mary Magdalene early, when it was yet dark, unto the sepulchre, and seeth the stone taken away from the sepulchre
    Luke 24:1 (KJV)
    Now upon the first day of the week, very early in the morning, they came unto the sepulchre, bringing the spices which they had prepared, and certain others with them.
    Questions
    1. Are these two verses describing the SAME event?
    PS: vooks, believes they are describing the same event and it happened around 0530H Sunday morning
    >>>
    <<All the trips>>? Yes. These are two of them. Yet Vooks <<<believes they are describing the same event and it happened around 0530H Sunday morning>>> the same time.

    Quoting Vooks:
    <<<Read this verse carefully;
    John 20:2 (KJV)
    Then she runneth, and cometh to Simon Peter, and to the other disciple, whom Jesus loved, and saith unto them, They have taken away the Lord out of the sepulchre, and we know not where they have laid him
    What does Mary Magdalene mean by WE if she alone visited the tomb?
    Matthew 28:1 (KJV)
    In the end of the sabbath, as it began to dawn toward the first day of the week, came Mary Magdalene and the other Mary to see the sepulchre
    The answer is she didn't, they went there with the women, finds the stone rolled away, she dashes back to tell Peter no John. They come back to the tomb and peep in, and leave. Mary is left inside the tomb and Jesus appears to her.
    >>>

    GE:

    THESE, are TWO <verses> different authors different subjects different events different times.

    Vooks:

    <<All the trips>>? Yes. Matthew 28 is a third one of <<all the trips>>. Yet Vooks challenges the truth of what John wrote and asserts that what John meant when he wrote, “Mary Magdalene comes, she sees, she runs back”, he didn’t mean <<she alone visited the tomb>>, but that <<Mary Magdalene and the other Mary came to see the sepulchre>> and <<they went there with the women, finds [Sic.] the stone rolled away, she [alone] dashes back to tell Peter…>> mark!— <<…no John.>> Then <<…They>>— viz, <Peter> and <<<Mary, come back to the tomb and peep in, and leave. Mary is left inside the tomb and Jesus appears to her>>>
    Peter <peeped in>. Yes Peter and Mary—<<no John>>, <peeped in>. Peter did not go in, but <<Mary is left inside the tomb and Jesus appears to her>>. . .<<inside the tomb>>.

    THREE <trips> so far ---NO, FOUR, FIVE at least, forced into ONE and the same at the same time the same persons the same observations the same <report> the same actions . . .

    Now that is what Vooks should have asked about, <<<How nonsensical can it get?>>>
     
    #1 Gerhard Ebersoehn, Jun 29, 2015
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 30, 2015
  2. vooks

    vooks
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    Why are you dragging me down to your level? So you can beat me with experience at convoluted trash?

    I won't have none of that.

    I posed a simple challenge.
    Starting with the FIRST trip to the tomb by the disciples AFTER burial, reconstruct all the trips to the tomb


    PS:
    Don't you try to impute schizophrenia on Mary Magdalene, 'we' means WE not Mary,her alter, and her shadow
     
  3. Gerhard Ebersoehn

    Gerhard Ebersoehn
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    GE:

    Quoting Vooks:
    <<<John 20:2 (KJV)
    Then she runneth, and cometh to Simon Peter, and to the other disciple, whom Jesus loved, and saith unto them, They have taken away the Lord out of the sepulchre, and we know not where they have laid him.
    Who is WE?
    Mark 16:3-4 (KJV)
    And they said among themselves, Who shall roll us away the stone from the door of the sepulchre? 4 And when they looked, they saw that the stone was rolled away: for it was very great
    >>>

    Vooks:

    <<<Who is WE?>>>

    GE:

    <We>, where? In <<<John 20:2 (KJV)>>>, Vooks, quotes: “Then she runneth, and cometh to Simon Peter, and to the other disciple, whom Jesus loved, and saith unto them, They have taken away the Lord out of the sepulchre, and we know not where they have laid him.”
    John is clear, <we> are Mary, Peter and John. The three of them who “know not”.
    Vooks though, claims, no, <we> are the women involved in <<<Mark 16:3-4 (KJV)>>>, “And they said among themselves, Who shall roll us away the stone from the door of the sepulchre? 4 And when they looked, they saw that the stone was rolled away: for it was very great”.
    Vooks was still explaining <<All the trips>>. He already showed three <trips>— John 20:1,2 Luke 24:1-3, Matthew 28:1-4. Now he adds a fourth <trip> referred to in Mark 16:3-4. Four <trips> of <<all the trips>> pointed out by Vooks so far.
    But Vooks has it <<<they are describing the same event and it happened around 0530H Sunday morning>>>.


    Vooks:

    <<<Go back to Mark. The women find the stone rolled and they get in, Mary is among them.>>>

    GE:

    This is not Mark; it is Luke, 24:2,3, 10.

    Vooks:

    THIS IS MARK!
    Mark 16:1-9 (KJV)
    And when the sabbath was past, Mary Magdalene, and Mary the mother of James, and Salome, had bought sweet spices, that they might come and anoint him. 2 And very early in the morning the first day of the week, they came unto the sepulchre at the rising of the sun. 3 And they said among themselves, Who shall roll us away the stone from the door of the sepulchre? 4 And when they looked, they saw that the stone was rolled away: for it was very great. 5 And entering into the sepulchre
    Who are THEY but Mary Magdalene, Mary the Mother of James, and Salome

    GE:

    <<<Mark 16:1-9 (KJV)>>>
    Mark 16:1-9 includes the buying of the spices as well as the first appearance. But neither of John 20:1,2, Luke 24:1-3, Matthew 28:1-4 has either the buying or the appearance.

    While John 20:1,2, Luke 24:1-3, Matthew 28:1-4 have each some woman or women <reporting> something but <<<Mark 16:1-9 (KJV)>>> states “they told no one anything”. But <<<they are describing the same event and it happened around 0530H Sunday morning>>>.

    Vooks:

    Luke 24:1 (KJV)
    Now upon the first day of the week, very early in the morning, they came unto the sepulchre, bringing the spices which they had prepared, and certain others with them
    What is 'very early in the morning'? 'Early dawn'- barthus orthros
    ?????? (orthros)
    Strong: G3722
    GK: G3986
    the dawn; the morning, Jn. 8:2; Acts 5:21; ????? ?????, the first streak of dawn, the early dawn, Lk. 24:1
    Luke reckons they came at DAWN not your fantasized DUSK/evening

    GE:

    I deny I <<fantasized DUSK/evening>> in <<Lk. 24:1>>. Quote me! You can’t. You loose.

    Now where are <<All the trips>>?
    According to Vooks there was only one!

    Vooks:

    John 20:1 =Luke 24:1 = John 20:2 = Matthew 28:1 = John 20:2 = Mark 16:3-4 = Go back to Mark. The women find the stone rolled and they get in, Mary is among them = THIS IS MARK!
    Mark 16:1-9 = Luke 24:1 (KJV) Now upon the first day of the week, very early in the morning, they came unto the sepulchre, bringing the spices which they had prepared, and certain others with them
    What is 'very early in the morning'? 'Early dawn'- . . . the dawn; the morning . . . the first streak of dawn, the early dawn, Lk. 24:1 = Luke reckons they came at DAWN not DUSK/evening.

    GE:

    Vooks says these <trips> are all <<the same event>> as in John 20:1,2. And Vooks says, in <<<John 20:1 =Luke 24:1 = John 20:2 = Matthew 28:1 = John 20:2 = Mark 16:3-4 … Mary is among them… the women>>— the women in Luke, 24:2,3,10.
    That’s how <nonsensical> the Gospels get according to Vooks.
     
    #3 Gerhard Ebersoehn, Jun 30, 2015
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 30, 2015
  4. Revmitchell

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    What are all the >>>>>><<<<<<< about?
     
  5. vooks

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    It is not exactly sin to be an amateur theologian with 40 solid years of wandering in Kadesh Barnea and ZERO contribution to the body of theology
     
  6. vooks

    vooks
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    South African patented garbage at its finest
     
  7. Gerhard Ebersoehn

    Gerhard Ebersoehn
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    It's all about <Vooks>
     
    #7 Gerhard Ebersoehn, Jun 30, 2015
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  8. Gerhard Ebersoehn

    Gerhard Ebersoehn
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    I would say (unless I impute schizophrenia on the disciples) that <<Starting ... after BURIAL>>, the women began their <<FIRST trip>> AWAY FROM the tomb— in fact written is it, in Luke 23:56, “Then", from where they had come to, much earlier "that day", "they", “by the time the Jews’ preparations started”, "RETURNED HOME mid-afternoon ... and prepared spices”—. John 19:42 Luke 23:56a.
    And written is it in Mark 15:46, “Joseph rolled a stone unto the door of the sepulchre . . .”, and in Matthew 27:60, “. . . and DEPARTED”—AWAY FROM the tomb and not <<to the tomb>>.

    Therefore, Starting with the first trip TO the tomb by Joseph (and Nicodemus?) and the two women, "Mary Magdalene and the other Mary" Mark 15:47 Matthew 27:61, we only know it must have been before "mid-afternoon the Sabbath nearing and That Day was the Preparation" when "the women (were) following after" in the procession TO, the grave. Luke 23:55b

    Principle B

     
    #8 Gerhard Ebersoehn, Jul 1, 2015
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  9. vooks

    vooks
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    Gerhard,
    There are good reasons why you are widely ignored here and in life; you are cursed with terminal incoherence.
    Jesus is dead, buried and there are trips to the tomb BY THE DISCIPLES. Could you please reconstruct the trips in the same sequence they occurred? Make it easy, don't give verses YET,just a simple narrative. As an additional assignment, put some approximate times to these visits
     
    #9 vooks, Jul 1, 2015
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  10. Gerhard Ebersoehn

    Gerhard Ebersoehn
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    If you would like I do, consider Mary Magdalene a <disciple>, you have just relinquished your claims with regard to John 20:1, and CONFIRMED the Scriptures' --TEN-- <<trips to the tomb BY THE DISCIPLES>>.

    Now go read the full details of each one in the complete, sola, Scriptures on the thread 'Ten visits to the tomb', http://www.baptistboard.com/showthre...=1#post2218866

    And remember what you wrote, yourself, <<<. . . Why would Mary . . . run like mad from the open tomb without as much as looking in? . . . Why should an open tomb startle Mary to run back and report to Peter and John? . . .
    It means an open tomb in and of itself provides no conclusive evidence of anything!>>>
     
    #10 Gerhard Ebersoehn, Jul 1, 2015
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  11. vooks

    vooks
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    Why did you start another infantile silly rant? You can't because you know you would be cornered.
    You could have revived your older thread. When you gather courage to be set free by the truth, please respond to my question
     
  12. Gerhard Ebersoehn

    Gerhard Ebersoehn
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    Why have I <<revived (my) older thread>>?

    Because there are hundred times greater and more fallacies and lies of yours to be exposed.

    You may follow it. But regardless if you are going to or not, I'm going on with it. . . . as you can see.

    Exposing you for the utter fraud you are.

     
    #12 Gerhard Ebersoehn, Jul 1, 2015
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  13. vooks

    vooks
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    Where is the narrative,am still waiting. A paragraph would do
     
  14. Gerhard Ebersoehn

    Gerhard Ebersoehn
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    Running out of steam won't help you. I am relentless.
     
  15. Sapper Woody

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    I can't even follow who said what, what all the greater than/less than is supposed to mean, who's advocating what, and all the extra commas. This thread is incoherency at its finest.
     
  16. vooks

    vooks
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    Gehard is a sabbatarian.
    Sabbatarians usually try to validate their sabbath beliefs by claiming that Jesus resurrected on a Saturday and not Sunday.
    They do this by the most dishonest and retarded harmonization attempt of the resurrection accounts on the 4 gospels.

    On this particular thread we are examining the trips disciples made to the tomb right after burial.

    John 20:1-3 (KJV)
    The first day of the week cometh Mary Magdalene early, when it was yet dark, unto the sepulchre, and seeth the stone taken away from the sepulchre. 2 Then she runneth, and cometh to Simon Peter, and to the other disciple, whom Jesus loved, and saith unto them, They have taken away the Lord out of the sepulchre, and we know not where they have laid him


    On this verse, Gehard has insisted that Mary Magdalene visited the tomb FIRST and ALONE, and upon finding the stone rolled, she quickly concluded that Jesus' body must have been moved from the tomb, never bothers to confirm her assumptions by peeping in, and she runs and reports her missing body assumptions to Peter and John. These two run to the tomb, find the stone rolled and they get in and believe for themselves.

    His proof that Mary was alone and she never peeped?
    1. Nobody else is mentioned in the narrative (I will prove this false shortly)
    2. You are not told she peeped

    My point is Mary was not alone even though she is reported alone,and she definitely peeped into the open tomb and found it empty. I don't impute assumptions on her. An open tomb does not equate to a missing body. So instinctively she would have peeped in and found the body missing before rushing to report this to Peter and John.

    My proof that she was not alone?
    1. It is ridiculous to visit a tomb, get close enough to spot the rolled stone and then run back and assume the body is missing.
    2. Her report suggests several people, "....we know not where they have laid him..."
    If she was alone at the tomb, she can't talk of 'we'. Gerhard is certainly not English. He thinks 'we' means Mary,Peter and John. This is plain silly because she is reporting TO them
    3. I strongly believe this account is reported in
    Mark 16:1-5 (KJV)
    And when the sabbath was past, Mary Magdalene, and Mary the mother of James, and Salome, had bought sweet spices, that they might come and anoint him. 2 And very early in the morning the first day of the week, they came unto the sepulchre at the rising of the sun. 3 And they said among themselves, Who shall roll us away the stone from the door of the sepulchre? 4 And when they looked, they saw that the stone was rolled away: for it was very great. 5 And entering into the sepulchre, they saw a young man sitting on the right side, clothed in a long white garment; and they were affrighted.

    Mary here has company.
    The sight of the rolled stone does not startle them

    Gerhard insists this is a DIFFERENT trip to the tomb, six hours later after Mary's

    But it begs the question. Mary has visited the tomb, found it open, reported this to Peter and John, returned to the tomb with them, and they have confirmed the body is indeed missing. Why then would she accompany the women with the spices to anoint a missing body,and on the way ponder who would roll the stone yet Mary knows the stone had been rolled away?


    So Sapper, all am doing is poking holes at Gerhard's illogical theory of Mary's THREE trips to the grave; first time alone, then accompanying Peter and John,many finally accompanying the women
     
    #16 vooks, Jul 1, 2015
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  17. Gerhard Ebersoehn

    Gerhard Ebersoehn
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    This reply is only to tell you about your WRONG impression about what I say, concerning Mark 16:2-8. I don't say <<this trip>> was <<six hours later after Mary's>>. Shows you how BAD you represent my views in general.
     
  18. Gerhard Ebersoehn

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    And this post is just to show how FALSE you represent what I say, YOU LIAR! Nothing is uglier than a LYING 'Christian'!

    Like you LIE, HERE! <<<So Sapper, all am doing is poking holes at Gerhard's illogical theory of Mary's THREE trips to the grave; first time alone, then accompanying Peter and John,many finally accompanying the women>>>— <<Mary's . . . trips to the grave; first time alone, then accompanying Peter and John>>— <<Mary . . . accompanying Peter and John>>.

    It is no use to converse with you. But I will finish for those who nevertheless do read these exchanges.

     
  19. Gerhard Ebersoehn

    Gerhard Ebersoehn
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    Another misrepresentation of my position, a calculated misrepresentation in order to associate me with legalists, the greater body of <sabbatarians> who believe the Sabbath for no other reason than do Jews who reject Christ for the Essence and Substance of their 'Sabbath keeping'.

    Vooks said, <<How nonsensical can it get?>> I say, How <dishonest> can he, get!
     
  20. Gerhard Ebersoehn

    Gerhard Ebersoehn
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    I am jealous of the truth and very thankful for the very few of <Sabbatarians> who pride themselves of Jesus Christ who rose from the dead : "in the end and fullness of the Sabbath's-PURPOSE and TIME" <to validate their Sabbath beliefs>. Sola gratia; sola fidei; sola Scriptura : solus Christus for every speck of my—and our, faith in the Faith of Christ.
     
    #20 Gerhard Ebersoehn, Jul 2, 2015
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