How old were they?

Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by Joseph_Botwinick, Sep 10, 2006.

  1. Joseph_Botwinick

    Joseph_Botwinick
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    How old were Adam and Eve when they were kicked out of the Garden of Eden? Scripture please.

    Joseph Botwinick
     
  2. Helen

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    past puberty. She conceived shortly thereafter.
     
  3. Pipedude

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    Old enough to know better....
     
  4. Joseph_Botwinick

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    How old was that? I promise there is a point to this. I will reveal it later.

    Joseph Botwinick
     
  5. Diggin in da Word

    Diggin in da Word
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    we don't know the age. It is not told. But we are given the time of day when Adam was created.

    It was a little before Eve! :laugh:
     
    #5 Diggin in da Word, Sep 10, 2006
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 10, 2006
  6. Joseph_Botwinick

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    I agree with you Diggin.

    Now, what does everyone else think and how does this effect how old you think the earth is? Did men and women change biologically due to the fall? I think they did. This is yet another reason I think we have no idea how old the earth is if we base it solely on Biblical geneology. There are several unanswered questions which leaves the issue unaddressed by the Bible.

    Joseph Botwinick
     
  7. Helen

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    Joseph, the presumption has always been that they were young adults despite the fact that they were a few days or weeks old when kicked out of the garden. I don't know if you are playing word games here or not. Because God told them to be fruitful and multiply (or increase) before the Fall, we know they were old enough to do that. Because there was no conception until after the Fall, the presumption is that they were not in Eden long until the Fall.
     
  8. Helen

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    Joseph, the Bible is extraordinarily clear about the age of the entire cosmos. Although the Masoretic dropped the cipher for 100 from a number of the genealogies in Genesis 5 and 11, whether you take the younger, Masoretic age or the older, Alexandrian LXX age, in neither case is the cosmos much older than 8000 years.

    This is also evidenced by my husband's work in the last 27 years. His collection of data from others' work and his own math is simply saying to the world "See where this leads?" He started out an old-ager and it was the data which turned him entirely around. It shows the Bible is absolutely right and we don't need to be afraid of standing up for that.
     
  9. Joseph_Botwinick

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    Helen,

    I am neither an old ager nor an young earther. I am a Bible doesn't care about the age of the earth guy. So, according to your husband's math, how old were Adam and Eve when they were kicked out of the garden and where in the Bible did he get his calculations?

    Joseph Botwinick
     
  10. Helen

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    You don't need math to figure that before they sinned they were obedient, and therefore having sex. However she did not conceive until after the Fall, so there could not have been much time in between!
     
  11. Salty

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    Just an educated guess here: I think it may have been 2 or three years. Had it only been a few hours, days or weeks, Adam and Eve could have easily said we really didn't know. But if it was at least a year or more, then they only had themselves to blame. And remember, the Lord (Gen 3:8) was in the Garden in the cool of the day; I tend to believe that this was a daily activity.

    Just my thought, not biblical basis.

    Salty
     
  12. Helen

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    OK, Barry and I were talking about this and he has a radically different point of view than I do, so I thought I would present it. He is taking a clue from God telling Eve He would multiply her sorrow and her conception (KJV), although the Alexandrian (we are checking this right now) says Eve's pain and groaning will be increased, or multiplied.

    Barry is checking the word 'groaning' right now, but if conception itself were what was to be multiplied, then there is the possibility that the monthly cycle of a woman now was not what it was then. It may have been that a woman's cycle was much less frequent, meaning that conception would also have been less frequent. That means that they certainly could have been in the Garden for a longer time. He is thinking they may have been in the Garden for even a year or more. One of the things that he is taking that off of, as well, is the fact that Lucifer evidently was involved in some kind of trade (in heaven?) according to Ezekiel 28, at the time of his rebellion.

    Barry is checking different words in the Greek and Hebrew right now and I'm going to take a shower as we have guests for dinner tonight. But this is an interesting study!

    I still disagree with him, but I have also found that when we disagree over something in the Bible, I am usually wrong....LOL....so we'll see where he heads with this. Be back in a bit.
     
  13. Helen

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    Ansered the other post. Have yet to shower so this will be short. Greek and Hebrew are very different here! The Greek states that God told Eve her sorrow and pain would be multiplied. The Hebrew states that her sorrow and conception would be multiplied. The 'sorrow' part is the same in both languages and the 'conception' seems clear in the Hebrew. The Greek word translated into 'pain' however, appears to be rather fuzzy and can mean a number of different things.

    So, knowing once again that my husband may well be right on this issue, I bow to him and run to the shower.
     
  14. Marcia

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    Joseph, so reveal it already! Waiting.... :smilewinkgrin:

    [I don't know, and I don't know if we can know]
     
  15. Joseph_Botwinick

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    Helen,

    I understand the presumption. I am curious to know, however, if this presumption is based on anything in the Bible. Is it not possible that before the fall, that people lived longer, went through puberty at different times. It seems clear to me in the narrative of the punishment of sin that we did change physically in some ways. In the end, I think it is a lot of speculation on all of our parts in that the Bible just doesn't clearly address some issues.

    Joseph Botwinick
     
  16. Joseph_Botwinick

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    How do you know she didn't concieve before the fall? What about the part of their punishment that decreed pain in childbirth? Where did all those other folks come from that Cain was so worried about after murdering his brother?

    Joseph Botwinick
     
  17. Salty

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    Had Eve concieved before the fall, would not the children have been born with out sin ie in the image of their parents Adam and Eve?

    Salty

    PS Joe this is a very intersting discussion:thumbs:
     
  18. Joseph_Botwinick

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    Yes, they would. Does the Bible explicitly teach that she didn't concieve before the fall?

    Joseph Botwinick

    PS,

    Salty,

    Thanks for the kind words.
     
  19. Marcia

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    I have read that Adam and Eve had other children after Cain and Abel, and those children (and Cain and Abel) had children and they all intermarried as there was no prohibition on incest then and the genetic lines were "purer."

    I don't think that Cain and Abel were necessarily young when Cain killed Abel. I think a lot of years passed between Gen 4.2 and 4.3.
     
  20. standingfirminChrist

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    There is no recording of Adam knowing his wife Eve (intimately) until after the fall and expulsion from the garden. Genesis 4
     

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