How should christians treat the saved homosexual?

Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by Matt22:37-39, Apr 12, 2013.

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  1. Matt22:37-39

    Matt22:37-39
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    HOW SHOULD CHRISTIANS TREAT THE SAVED HOMOSEXUAL?
    This has been an ongoing discussion on a "Christian" forum so my response was this...

    Many on here feel a homosexual can NOT be saved if they still have sex with the same sex...not sure why a heterosexual gets away with having sex outside of marriage and committing adultery etc. but the homosexual doesn't...so this is what I have to say to those who don't get it.

    The problem I think many are having is they are LOOKING at the outward rather than the inward..."Man looks at the outward appearance, but God looks at the heart"...1 Sam 16:7....We live in a FALLEN WORLD do you agree?

    And since we live in a fallen world [filthy language snipped] people are born with all kind of physical and mental ailments....some are born with NO attraction to anyone (the act of sex comes after attraction) some people are born with both sexes, some are born legitimately feeling from a very early age like 2 that they were born in the wrong body, some are born attracted to the same sex...never once having an attraction to the opposite sex...and some are attracted to both sexes...and for most this is a TRUTH that is with them for life.

    Now when a person gets saved no matter WHO they are, they will always have SOME SIN they have to deal with, that is just part of our sinful human nature that Paul says in Romans 7 that we struggle with...my sins/s and struggles may not be the same as yours or others, but never the less they are NO DIFFERENT IN GOD'S EYES...for to Him all sin is wrong and is why the SINLESS JESUS became SIN for us. 2 Cor 5:21

    Now think about it...lets take any of our sins and compare them to the homosexual...now how many times are we FORGIVEN when we KEEP screwing up in our sin nature and hurt God? ALL THE TIME, Matt 18:22....cause the bibles says "all our sins are forgiven past, present and future...they were nailed on the cross" Romans 8:1-2 and more. We sin more often than we want to admit, let's not forget sins of OMISSION...so why are the Homosexual Christians EXCLUDED from having the same problem?...and no I am not condoning their sin or lifestyle, but what we need to understand is what the bible is talking about....we need to separate the NON Christians from the saved Christians and even go further to separate the MATURE Christian from the WEAK one. Romans 14....Look at it as a SCALE from 0.................100....we will put SATAN on the 0 end...and GOD at the 100 end.

    0 being a NON BELIEVER HOMOSEXUAL....this person is condemned no matter what he does good or bad.

    50 the middle would be the BELIEVER a saved person, could be a homosexual (meaning someone who only is attracted to the same sex)...not of his works but Christ work on the cross.

    100 Being a homosexual Christian who is "sold out" for God and his walk is so close to God that he ONLY desires God's will and not his own....that in all he does he desires to love and honor and obey God...so he CHOOSES to not have sex with the same sex, much less sex outside of marriage at all!...for their husband and all is God.

    This is God''s desire for ALL who know Him...no matter what sin we struggle with....to be on the 100 side of the scale.

    So you will have homosexuals at all ends of the scale all depending on their WALK WITH GOD! and it isn't for me to say what that walk is, and whether they are saved or not, as we all have a RACE to run that is different than everyone else s. My race is not your race nor yours mine or ours others.

    My job and your job is to HELP THAT HOMOSEXUAL no matter which side of the scale they are on to DRAW CLOSER TO GOD through love, accountability (within the church only) acceptance, respect, prayer, guidance etc...so His desires become theirs...this we should do for everyone no matter what sin they struggle with....that is what He wants for all us sinners.

    Hope that helps...♥
     
    #1 Matt22:37-39, Apr 12, 2013
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  2. righteousdude2

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    There is NO such thing as a ....

    ....homosexual believer. Simply put, the woman brought to Jesus while caught in the act of adultery was told to "Go and sin no more!"

    If anyone comes to Him and receives forgiving grace, I don't believe they can or will want to continue in the sin, they were set free from.

    A homosexual Christian is JUST impossible. I am trying to understand your views, brother, but I can't agree with the terminology as it is contrary to what Grace does within the heart and the flesh.

    Homosexuality is a form of fornication, as it is a sexual act done outside of marriage - and even if the government intervenes in and allows them to marry, it is still not a Holy marriage - and to continue to commit fornication with a member of the same sex or a member of the opposite sex is a sin, and no one who is born-again will indulge in these practices without the guilt of the Holy Spirit coming down on them is a way that becomes un\bearable.

    If a person is going to recommit that same sin, over and over after claiming to come to Jesus, I'd have to say that they were probably not born-again.

    As I said above. Jesus told the woman - and that can be said to all of us - to "Go and sin no more!"

    There is NO wiggle room here. Sorry, unless I missed the point of your thread, I'd have to say that homosexual Christian and born-again believer don't belong in the same sentence.

    It is like trying to have the best from both worlds. In Christ, there is either black or white, no gray areas. You can't be a homosexual and a believer at the same time.

    I happen to know several believers that came out of the homosexual world, and they no longer lay any claim to that world. They no longer even tie their name and life to that world. They do speak of being delivered from that sinful lifestyle, but they do not call themselves Christian homosexuals!
     
  3. saturneptune

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    I used some of your post as a quote, not for the purpose of changing the meaning but to repsond to a few of the parts. It is, by the way, a very good post on a very difficult subject. Fifty years or so ago this was kept in the shadows of society. We did not put a seal of approval as a nation on the act or behavior, in other words as I have put it before, rubbing God's nose in the sin after He has so blessed us.

    I agree with you point there is no wiggle room here. The one thing I think we need to keep in mind is that goes for all forms of sexual departure from the Bible, not just homosexual activity, as as Christians or lost, we tend to be more disguisted at that aspect of sexual behavior than others.

    The point is that Christ makes us a new creation. Your statement about contiuned and prolonged sinning after salvation is a good sign there is no relationship with the Lord. I do think it is possible for a former lost person to slip in an isolated manner after salvation because of the continued sin nature in us. However, with the Holy Spirit in ones life, that is short lived and a quick return to a walk with the Lord is apparant. There is no way Christ saved someone with no change.

    Sometimes, and on this board, there are those who believe a morality record is perfect after salvation, and that is just not true. We become more like Jesus (sanctification) day after day, and the Holy Spirit keeps us on course. If one is not saved, there is no direction, because there is no Holy Spirit, thus no change.

    Really, these threads should be on all patterns of sinning in relation to salvation. Same sex relationships are the fad sin of the day. They are no different than a man continually lusting after women in his mind or cheating on his spouse with another woman. Those who think there is to justify their own behavior had better check on their own salvation instead of spending their time pointing fingers at a homosexual.
     
  4. Steadfast Fred

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    There is no such thing as a "Christian homosexual". The two words are enemies to each other.

    In 1 Corinthians 6, Paul gave a list of many attributes of the unrighteous and followed with "and such were some of you; but ye are washed..."

    A homosexual who truly comes to Christ will be like the demoniac whom Jesus found amongst the tombs naked. When Jesus drove the demon out, the man was found fully clothed and in his right mind. He no longer was that man of sin he was previous to his encounter with our Lord.

    And such were some of you.
     
  5. Salty

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    Is there such a thing as a lustful (heterosexual) Christina, A Greedy Christian, A slothful Christian, a prideful Christian and how about the # 1 -Christian glutton? Are you suggesting that a person who is guility of any of the five items I listed above is not truly a Chrsitian? I am not defending the h0mosexual lifestyle, and I trust that those who are born again will change. but for many it may tak a lot of time.
     
  6. Scarlett O.

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    Heterosexual people who commit sexual sin do not "get away" with sin. No sinner gets away with any sin.

    Do flawed human beings falsely judge others as "more" or "less" sinful than themselves and categorize sins as big ones to judge others by and little ones to sweep under the rug? Yes and it's an unbiblical thing to do.

    I'm not going to say that a homosexual person for whom the Holy Spirit leads to salvation will be able to - in an instant - forsake homosexuality. It may take time. Or maybe they might have to fight spiritual battles in their flesh from time to time for the rest of their life.

    That's how it is with heterosexual people and habitual sexual sin they were involved with prior to salvation (or even tempted with after salvation). It rears its ugly head - sometimes quite often and heterosexual people struggle, too.

    But the homosexual Christian, just like the sexually-sin plagued heterosexual Christian will live in MISERY over their sin - if they are genuinely saved. The conviction should lead to repentance and forsaking the sin.

    No one - homosexual or heterosexual - can live in the deep and filthy pit of their sexual sin and live with contentment/peace there and boast that God is perfectly fine with it.

    Those people - homosexual and heterosexual alike - are more than likely not saved to begin with.

    The homosexual Christian will be transformed. Instantaneously? Sometimes. Sometimes it's a painful process. But a transformation is part of the sanctification process and it is inevitable. Think about this. Did your salvation instantly take you from being a sinner to being a perfect sinless person? No. It doesn't work that way. But our SANCTIFICATION process should lead us day by day to being a closer image of Jesus Christ and living separately from the world and its evil.
     
    #6 Scarlett O., Apr 13, 2013
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  7. salzer mtn

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    Some people would compare a man or woman committing adultry with the opposite sex to that of a homosexual. While both are sin's there is no comparison. Notice in Romans the first chapter in verses 24, 26, 28. In verse 24 and 26 it say's Wherefore and for this cause God gave them up unto vile affections, and to uncleanness through the lust of their own hearts. and then in verse 28 it say's God gave them over to a reprobate mind to do those things which are not convenient. Homosexual acts are not natural act's. It is as un-natural as a human having a relationship with a animal. While i believe a homosexual can be saved there is no such thing as a saved homosexual.
     
    #7 salzer mtn, Apr 13, 2013
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  8. preachinjesus

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    Re: the question of the post...

    The same way we treat heterosexual Christians who are living immorally.

    With love, compassion, grace, and patiently reminding them of the standard of Scripture.
     
  9. saturneptune

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    So is your point that a lost person who lusts as a continuing practice is going to be in a less hot place in the Lake of Fire than the lost person who lusts after those of his or her own sex?
     
  10. webdog

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    True...but we should also take Paul's advice in his letter to the Thessalonians (2 These. 3) 14 Take special note of anyone who does not obey our instruction in this letter. Do not associate with them, in order that they may feel ashamed. 15 Yet do not regard them as an enemy, but warn them as you would a fellow believer.

    There is a time to be harsh...in love.
     
  11. webdog

    webdog
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    Excellent questions...but don't expect an answer as it will implicate the pharisees.
     
  12. Matt22:37-39

    Matt22:37-39
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    I should add that there is always a time and place for "CHURCH DISCIPLINE" for those living in blatant biblical sin that the bible is very clear about, such as FORNICATION of any kind and even divorcing unbliblically......but even that is always done IN LOVE and always for RESTORATION for ones walk with others and God!..and it isn't the LAY persons job to be judge, jury and executor...this is done through the leadership of the church. If one sins against you then you can bring it to another s attention and so on...Matt 18, oh I could go on.......Anyway, just wanted that to be clear.

    My OP is very correct...the problem most have is they don't SEE that sin is sin in God's eyes, so why is it ok for "Christians" in the church to fornicate and live together...(BTW, why wasn't the man held responsible for sinning, but only the woman that Jesus told to go and sin no more...doesn't mean she did, nor does it mean Jesus wouldn't forgiven her again...70 X 70) fornication among heterosexuals is happening so much in our churches today and no one is being held accountable for that...nor are Christians being held accountable for divorcing unbiblically too like my "Christian" husband did to 2 Christian wives now he is on his third.

    Nope, I stand by what I said and that is the homosexual in sin or not should be TREATED THE SAME as any other Christian who might be struggling with sin....please don't be so narrow minded to separate one person from another!

    God treats everyone the same if they are His and so shall we.
     
    #12 Matt22:37-39, Apr 13, 2013
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  13. Matt22:37-39

    Matt22:37-39
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    I'm glad SALTY gets it...:)
     
  14. Matt22:37-39

    Matt22:37-39
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    MERCY and COMPASSION: A much needed commodity in our society today. What does it mean to have these virtues and why do we not see more of it? I thank the Lord that He has given me either by genetics or by experience the ability to show MERCY and COMPASSION. In one sense, I do think much is inherited, as my kids and I are pretty good natured, (People-People) so I am sure ones innate temperament plays a huge role. When I took a test on spiritual gifts many years ago I scored equally high on FAITH/WISDOM, then equally high on SERVING/GIVING and then MERCY and others to follow. (Of course this is a Baptist church, so no sign gifts…which is another study in itself which I actually personally wrote about in 1991 that was 8 pages long, no computer, took me close to a year to put together) Anyway, I honestly believe and I know many will disagree that I think many of our innate gifts can transfer over to spiritual gifts. I also fell the closer one is to God the more God can do with them... I also know God can totally do such a transformation in one’s life under His power to do just the opposite, such as Moses. But for the “most” part if one has COMMON SENSE (Is it really common, that is what I want to know?) then they will have WISDOM. If one has a HEART then they will GIVE, ACT and show MERCY, if one has APPRECIATION then they will SERVE, if one is not prone to WORRY, but has a very TRUSTING nature they will have FAITH…see what I mean?

    Anyway I am not going to focus on just Christians, showing Mercy and Compassion is for everyone to practice no matter who you are, or what you do. Mercy is defined as “Forgiving Someone Of An Offense” it may well be warranted that you hold a grudge against that person or that you make sure they know what they did wrong and that no matter what they do or say there is no way you will forgive them. If I remember correctly JESUS forgave every sinner that confessed his sins. So why should we be any different? I mean isn’t the bottom line, (It is for me) that we should “Do Unto Others As We Would Have Done Unto Us?” …I’m sure this isn’t news to many of you, but I’m going to BLOW it at times in what I say or do, that is a fact till the day I die. And so will you. For one, our PERCEPTION alone will cause us to either be offended or to offend, just the way it is….for now. But the key to allowing MERCY to take place is in proper communication STARTING with the ONE WHO IS OFFENDED to say something to the one he feels has offended him and have an open HEART to try and understand the other person’s side…who knows maybe it wasn’t at all what you thought it was and your perception wasn’t reality. MERCY is; no matter what that person said or did, and if they have tried to make it right or are remorseful for it, then YOUR JOB given to you by a higher power, is to forgive, and pray you don’t do the same to someone else. By your NOT forgiving you are now the one OFFENDING…see the irony?

    A great example of showing MERCY (and I’ve heard many of these) is a victim or family member of a victim forgiving the offender when they deserved JUSTICE. Think of a MURDER or RAPE situation. The offender may be required by law to pay the penalty, but the victim carries on a relationship with the offender as if they were their best friend…that is the ultimate example of MERCY and is what Jesus did for us. I do think it is much easier (I know it is for me) to show Mercy to someone who is actually REMORSEFUL for what they have done and has tried to do what they can to make things right…if not, than it is hard if not impossible without God’s grace flowing through you.

    COMPASSION: Is going a step beyond EMPATHY, it is actually doing something about the “feelings” that make you stop and say, “what is wrong with this picture and how can I fix it, so we can go back to harmony.” I want to live in a world where people get along; a beautiful world based on harmony. (don’t we all?) I want to live in a world where we take care of each other, we are not to live isolated lives…the saying “NO MAN IS AN ISLAND” rings true. There is strength when two or more people are gathered, when the more strands you have the tougher the rope, where one does the right thing because it is the right thing to do. I can’t help but think sometimes, by the GRACE of God there go I. I want someone to be there when I need them… not IF, but when. The song “LEAN ON ME” and “YOU'VE GOT A FRIEND come to mind.

    I guess my bottom line is, everyone cries out, especially models lol… that their deepest wish for mankind is that there be PEACE...Specifically “World Peace” well guess what, if you really do want that then it STARTS WITH YOU!...it starts with me. But I am only responsible for ME! …in closing I say…
    Peace through Mercy and Compassion
     
  15. Steadfast Fred

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    According to the Word of God, those who do the works of the flesh shall not inherit the kingdom of God.

    The homosexual cannot come to Christ and remain a homosexual. If he remains a homosexual, his conversion was not genuine.
     
  16. Alive in Christ

    Alive in Christ
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    By "saved homosexual" I assume you mean he/she/ knows its terribly perverted, and sinfull, and they are *probably* struggling against it, and are celebit.

    If so, they should be treated with dignity, kindness and compasion.


    If they are militant, then we sould still be kind to them, but also speak the truth regarding homosexuality, and share the gosple to them.
     
  17. righteousdude2

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    By Any Chance - Do You Teach....

    ..."Tolerance" seminars on the weekends?

    Your argument, while seemingly valid, leans towards new-age Christianity. It is the world biblical view of Christianity, not the Biblical world view!

    Just as there is no place in the believer's life for gossip, hate, division, stealing, etc., the same is true for the sins of the eyes, heart and flesh [lust, be it for a person of the same sex or that of the opposite sex] is still a sign of sin controlling the life, and not Christ controlling the life.

    Granted, the process of sanctification is a life long process, but, there is no room for a believer to go on wilfully sinning and calling themself a believer.

    It reminds of those who live in the flesh six days a week, and go to church on Sunday praying for a "Crop failure!"

    If a believer's life is given to this view of God's forgiveness, maybe they need to return to the alter and get it right, this time!

    While we should have mercy and long suffering for our brothers and sisters, there comes a time, when we need to question the seriousness of their repentance. The alter is not the place for the believer to run to be day-after-day, week-after-week to ask for forgiveness of the same sin, repeatedly. Absolution is gained through a remorseful heart, and a repentant man is one that knows how blessed they were to be forgiven, and they have a burning desire to turn things in the direction of God.

    However, if the sin from which God delivered them from continues to burn within their flesh, heart and spirit, there is something to be said about this parable in Mark 4:13-20, (NRSV) -"And he said to them, “Do you not understand this parable? Then how will you understand all the parables? The sower sows the word. These are the ones along the path where the word is sown: when they hear, Satan immediately comes and takes away the word that is sown in them. And these are the ones sown upon rocky ground: when they hear the word, they immediately receive it with joy. However, they have no root, and endure only for a while; then, when trouble or persecution arises on account of the word, immediately they fall away. And others are those sown among the thorns: these are the ones who hear the word, but the cares about the world, and the lure of wealth, and the desire for other things come in and choke the word, and it yields nothing. And these are the ones sown on the good soil: they hear the word and accept it and bear fruit, thirty and sixty and a hundredfold.”

    I'm sorry, but to go around telling people that I am a born-again adulterer; born-again fornicator; born-again homosexual; born-again molester; born-again luster; born-again voyeur; born-again Nazi; born-again Satanist; born-again witch; born-again "whatever" is a contradiction to what the Word says when we read in 2 Corinthians 5:17, (NRSV) - "So if anyone is in Christ, there is a new creation: everything old has passed away; see, everything has become new!"

    To tell someone that they are a born-again homosexual seems to me that they are giving themselves enough leach to hang themselves on when the flesh tempts them. This way, they can have an excuse to sin, and an advocate to run to for absolution, whenever they see the need.

    Sorry, it won't work for me! We are either a new creation in Him, or we are not? Again, no wiggle room; no gray area. Only a new creation, sanctified [growing], and moving towards everlasting glory.

    Homosexual Christian is an excuse waiting to sin, with an eternal hope to be forgiven each time they return to their old stomping grounds to eat of the bitter fruit.
     
  18. webdog

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    Can someone be a Christian and a glutton? A liar? A gossip?
     
  19. salzer mtn

    salzer mtn
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    I was just wondering, when you took that test years ago, how did you score on pride ?
     
  20. salzer mtn

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    I believe hell burns as hot for the good moral, law abiding citizen that failed to call upon the Lord for salvation as the meanest, rottenest, vilest, perverted, God haten, Christ rejecting sinner that ever walked. I don't believe for one minute homosexuals are born, they are made, they create themselves. A person that starts courting the devil will wind up dancing with the devil. It's like dope heads, they start out with the lighter stuff and before long they've created a appetite and graduated to the harder stuff. Read 11 Tim 3:1-5 In the third verse, withou natural affections, incontinent ( unable to control lust) I believe in these last day's God is with holding his restaining hand and you are seeing man's unholy evil Adam nature as you've never saw it before. If there was no law of the land people would be killing one another just for the pleasure of it.
     
    #20 salzer mtn, Apr 13, 2013
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