Featured How should christians treat the saved homosexual?

12strings the distinction is this. We don't refer to heterosexuality as a sin because God doesn't. He speaks to the acts and the people performing the acts of adultery and fornication.

So in a like manner, why do we keep referring to homosexuality as a sin again when God does not? As He does with heterosexuality, He speaks to specific sex acts and the people.

God has not said that specific orientations are sinful.

He didn't condemn a heterosexual orientation because an orientation doesn't commit sin. People do.

A heterosexual desire is not heterosexuality.

 

In My Honest Opinion...

...I think that those advocating for a more softer version of Christianity and a new, more tolerant church are like those from the church in Sardis.

Maybe those who advocate that homosexuals can continue to be homsexuals, just saved homosexuals should read with an open heart the words of warning from Revelation 2:18-29, (NKJV):

“And to the angel of the church in Thyatira write, These things says the Son of God, who has eyes like a flame of fire, and His feet like fine brass: I know your works, love, service, faith, and your patience; and as for your works, the last are more than the first. Nevertheless I have a few things against you, because you allow that woman Jezebel, who calls herself a prophetess, to teach and seduce My servants to commit sexual immorality and eat things sacrificed to idols. And I gave her time to repent of her sexual immorality, and she did not repent. Indeed I will cast her into a sickbed, and those who commit adultery with her into great tribulation, unless they repent of their deeds. I will kill her children with death, and all the churches shall know that I am He who searches the minds and hearts. And I will give to each one of you according to your works; Now to you I say, and to the rest in Thyatira, as many as do not have this doctrine, who have not known the depths of Satan, as they say, I will put on you no other burden. But hold fast what you have till I come. And he who overcomes, and keeps My works until the end, to him I will give power over the nations—‘He shall rule them with a rod of iron; they shall be dashed to pieces like the potter’s vessels’—as I also have received from My Father; and I will give him the morning star. He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches.”’​

If that was a little difficult to completely comprehend, try the Message Bible version of the same text:

"Write this to Thyatira, to the Angel of the church. God’s Son, eyes pouring fire-blaze, standing on feet of furnace-fired bronze, says this: I see everything you’re doing for me. Impressive! The love and the faith, the service and persistence. Yes, very impressive! You get better at it every day. But why do you let that Jezebel who calls herself a prophet mislead my dear servants into Cross-denying, self-indulging religion? I gave her a chance to change her ways, but she has no intention of giving up a career in the god-business. I’m about to lay her low, along with her partners, as they play their sex-and-religion games. The bastard offspring of their idol-whoring I’ll kill. Then every church will know that appearances don’t impress me. I x-ray every motive and make sure you get what’s coming to you. The rest of you Thyatirans, who have nothing to do with this outrage, who scorn this playing around with the Devil that gets paraded as profundity, be assured I’ll not make life any harder for you than it already is. Hold on to the truth you have until I get there. Here’s the reward I have for every conqueror, everyone who keeps at it, refusing to give up: You’ll rule the nations, your Shepherd-King rule as firm as an iron staff, their resistance fragile as clay pots. This was the gift my Father gave me; I pass it along to you—and with it, the Morning Star! Are your ears awake? Listen. Listen to the Wind Words, the Spirit blowing through the churches.”​

It is my sincere opinion that many believers and their churches are caught up in the Jezebel spirit. And it is not necessarily by their own doing, but rather by association with it, and then being pulled in with the Jezebel herself! The Jezebel spirit is the one that plays loosely with sexual sin, failing to call it what it is; SIN.

I personally don't care if you want to call a homsexual believer a "Homosexual Christian." For me it is akin to those gays who want to be married. Their desire to be normalized and accepted by the institutions of this society will not end until they are fully accepted by the one institution that should be the one that never accepts their sin as a "business as usual" thing.

The gay agenda is to infiltrate every psrt of society and be accepted. They will more than likely gain entrance int toe sacred and holy ranks fo the married folks, but, they should never be allowed to enter the institution of the church on their own terms.

Yet, there are those who are willing to buy their agenda, believing it will simply be assimiliated into our way of thinking with time, while in fact, I see it far differently. I see the gay culture coming into the church under their own terms, and once they have a foothold, dividing the church like they are dividing the society over the institution of marriage, and there will come a day when gays will be held in high esteem, hold offices of importance, and also continue to live in the sin they claim to have left behind them.

When we do not hold the sinner responsible to change how they view their salvation, a watered down version of faith is given birth, and we have a church that worships along side of those commit vile sins, and claim they are still going to heaven.

They beg our fogiveness and understanding while they work on changing the outside to reflect the inside, but in fact, once they gain acceptance they will wither and die in their desire to change and be rid of the homosexual sins, choosing instead to live out their life with one foot in heaven and one foot in hell.

This is the how the Jezebel spirit begins, and we, as the church, have the repsonsiblity to no let that happen. If it seems strong armed or legalistic, so be it. it is the way of God.

God have no room for halfway believers. Secret Services Saints. Lady Clairol Christians. These are the people who only God knows for sure if they are saved.

It is our responsibility, to some extent, to be able to identify good furit from bad fruit, and not to allow bad fruit to mix with good fruit. Ananias and his wife Sapphira were deceptive and in turn struck down by God and carried out. We, as the church, can't allow a cancerous form of sin to infiltrate our ranks, because if it does, it will weaken us in the days to come.

The Bible tells us in 2 Thessalonians 3:14-15what to do with those who "cling to sin!" - "
Take note of those who refuse to obey what we say in this letter. Stay away from them so they will be ashamed. Don't think of them as enemies, but warn them as you would a brother or sister."

Then we read in 1 Corinthians 5:12-13, that He passes this responsibility on to the church family: "It isn’t my responsibility to judge outsiders, but it certainly is your responsibility to judge those inside the church who are sinning. God will judge those on the outside; but as the Scriptures say, 'You must remove the evil person from among you.'"

Finally, Paul write in 1 Corinthians 5:1-5, (NKJV) - When Immorality Defiles the Church It is actually reported that there is sexual immorality among you, and such sexual immorality as is not even named among the Gentiles—that a man has his father’s wife! And you are puffed up, and have not rather mourned, that he who has done this deed might be taken away from among you. For I indeed, as absent in body but present in spirit, have already judged (as though I were present) him who has so done this deed. In the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, when you are gathered together, along with my spirit, with the power of our Lord Jesus Christ, deliver such a one to Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that his spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.

For a great article on church discipline, SEE: http://christianity.about.com/od/whatdoesthebiblesay/a/Church-Discipline.htm

 

I'm curious; when you talked to them, what did you say to them about homosexuality being a sin?

 

God ordained from the beginning that there be man and woman. Throughout the bible, there are principles and guidelines about the relationship between man and woman.

There are no principles or guidelines even remotely close to the same about "life partners." Scripture says that man lying with man as he would a woman is abomination.

Scripture makes a pretty clear distinction.

Um...if the definition of "heterosexuality" is "a sexual attraction towards people of the opposite sex," and "attraction" is a synonym for "desire," then actually, heterosexuality is heterosexual desire.

 

No disagreement.

Again no disagreement.

You AGAIN mentioned a sexual ACT, not homosexuality, that God points out as sinful.

Say we go with your definition of heterosexuality and likewise go with "a sexual attraction towards people of the same sex" for homosexuality.

Where are the words on the pages of the Bible that God says for all to see that attraction is sinful?

 

I find that interesting....

We are talking "apples and oranges" in a way, Matt22, but for you to suggest that if Jesus himself laid hands on a homosexual person and they'd still be homosexual....is not right. I don't know where you are coming from on this issue, but, my God is greater than anything, meaning that if He said to something be healed or changed, it would be as He said, because He is GOD!

I hope you just made a slip of the finger when you typed that statement out, because it may get you some interesting responses concerning God, faith, and His ability to do anything He sets His mind on, because He is the author of all we see and know! :thumbs:

I also don't believe that God made junk! I come from the camp that homosexuals are homosexual by their own free will, not because they are born to be that way. But, let's say they were born with that tendancy. Isn;t it true that even the lame, blind and deaf who came to Jesus for healing were in fact HEALED?

I can't think of anyone coming to Jesus for a personal touch; being turned away without either the problem removed, resolved or being given the spiritual, mental, emotional and phsyical skills and abilities to adapt and overcome the problem they were born with, or given through a life event. :godisgood:

 

People are not born homosexuals. It is a choice. A choice to listen to a lying spirit that tells them to be attracted to and sensuously aroused by their own gender.

And contrary to what Matt 22:39-39 may think, if Jesus laid hands on a homosexual to drive that abominable spirit out, that spirit would have to obey and leave.

 

Well, now you've got me confused. In the last paragraph of what you wrote--please go back and feel free to read your own words--you said that lesbians who are older are mainly just roommates, that sex isn't a big deal for them; and you followed that with "I should know, I've talked with enough of them."

So my question, since you talked with enough of them, is: what did ypu say to them about homosexuality being a sin? And my follow-up question is, how did they react to you telling them it was a sin?

OH, by the way: You're wrong. One of my recent posts addresses the point that I do NOT expect them to be "instantly cured." It has always been our contention that continuing in the sin while calling themselves "Christians" is the problematic issue.

 

Well, see, I did this little thing that's called "using a dictionary." So let's say you want to disagree with the dictionary, a common resource that's accepted and agreed upon world-wide; what definition would you have us use instead?

 

If their attractions never changed, they were never saved.

A man who is attracted to another man in a sensual manner is guilty of sodomy in his heart whether he committed the physical act or not.

Jesus doesn't save a homosexual and leave him a homosexual.

The saved are joint heirs with Christ. Homosexuals cannot inherit the kingdom of heaven. Thus, it is impossible for a man to be a homosexual and a saved person at the same time.

 

Funny, in post #308 you say that some are homosexuals because of genetics, then in your last post to righteousdude2 you say that if people say same sex is natural it is a lie.

If they were homosexual because of genetics, same sex would be natural.

The truth is, not one homosexual is a homosexual because of genetics. They are what they are because of one thing... sin.

 

How do they typically react when you say this to them?

 

I don't know how to even begin to respond to that statement.

Sounds like "Hath God said?", IMO.

 

All sin is from a wicked and deceitful heart. I mentioned earlier in the thread that Proverbs 6:16-19 for me is an excellent list of sins that God, and Jesus Christ being God, hates and is an abomination. Two things angered Christ when He walked the earth, the money changers in the temple, and the hippocracy of the Pharisees. Matthew 23 is the best divine tirate against particular sin that angers the Lord. Proverbs not only states what the Lord hates, but is an abomination to Him.

Other places list same sex relationships and activity as an abomination to the Lord. Paul mentions that all sexual sin is a sin against the body, an added factor of sin in general. I think we all understand that the final result of sin without Christ is the same regardless of the sin. A lot of the disagreement in this thread is communication, not theology.

Having said all of that, you in fact do not understand how God created or wired anyone. It is easy for you to say or point a finger if the sin does not bother you. For example, the thought of waking up to a man in bed with me the next morning is disguisting to me, whether I was saved or lost. So, in my mind, there is nothing here that being a Christian does for me on this subject. Christ changes people, therefore, He changes attitude towards sin one would be inclined to do when lost. There are other areas I will not get into here that He has changed in my life, but this is not one of them, as it was never a problem. Christ works from the inside out.

You have made post after post of people who have mental problems as some type of judgement from the Lord. Since I work in an adult day care, and work with these folks daily, I know this to be pure baloney, unfair, and without merit. Your discerment of others seems to be based on what does and does not tempt or bother you.

All we know is that God created each of us, and that same sex activity is a sin. You have no idea how or why God created them. Based on your posts about mental illness, your whole standard is warped.

 

Based on your inference that God wires some people to be homosexuals, your whole standard is warped