How sufficient is the Lord’s blood?

Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by stilllearning, Jan 25, 2011.

  1. stilllearning

    stilllearning
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    On another thread that is about to close, someone asked......
    Well it can’t.

    But the Bible says that “He died for all”.......
    2 Corinthians 5:14-15
    V.14 For the love of Christ constraineth us; because we thus judge, that if one died for all, then were all dead:
    V.15 And [that] he died for all, that they which live should not henceforth live unto themselves, but unto him which died for them, and rose again.

    --------------------------------------------------
    Now I know that some Calvinist will point out that the context this passage is talking to Christians, therefore it means that Christ only died for “all Christians”.

    Therefore, where does the Bible say that His blood paid for the sins of the unsaved?
    Here it is......
    2 Peter 2:1
    “But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.”


    Even the unsaved, have been “bought”, by the blood of Christ.
    This way, everyone that is ever born, has the opportunity to get saved.
     
  2. mets65

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    See you quote that verse but give it a bit and some calvinists will put their own meaning in it. They will tell us what it really means.
     
  3. Tom Butler

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    A question of two to stimulate some thought.

    What does it mean for the Lord to buy someone? Or for me to buy something?

    Doesn't it mean that the Lord purchased me, owns me, calls me his own; that I belong to Him? That's not usually the way one describes a lost person.

    Now, what about this passage from Revelation:
    Why didn't the verse say he had purchased every tribe, language, people and nation? Instead, it clearly says he purchased a number from every tribe, but not all of the tribe.
     
  4. pinoybaptist

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    Not only this passage, but the entire Bible Old and New Testament, was written for the instruction and learning of ALL of God's people everywhere, and only they.

    Romans 15:4
    For whatsoever things were written aforetime were written for our learning, that we through patience and comfort of the scriptures might have hope.

    1Corinthians 10:11 - Now these things unto them and for admonition, whom of the world .

    Certainly, Paul was not writing to mankind.
     
  5. HankD

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    But he preached to all mankind through the Word of God...

    Acts 17:30 And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent:


    HankD
     
  6. mets65

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    Tell me where it says the bible is only for God's people. Because paul wrote to unbelievers.
     
  7. webdog

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    Well, when you look at the principle of accepted slavery lain out in the OT, the slave master "bought" or redeemed the one who could not repay him. This was a voluntary act, not an involuntary one on the behalf of the slave.

    The passover blood was only accepted by those who applied it. If Limited Atonement were true, the act of killing the passover lamb would have been sufficient in itself and the application to the door posts would be meaningless.

    But there were also false prophets among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you. They will secretly introduce destructive heresies, even denying the sovereign Lord who bought them--bringing swift destruction on themselves.
     
    #7 webdog, Jan 25, 2011
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 25, 2011
  8. HankD

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    I never did get a satisfactory explanation for the following scripture:

    1 Timothy 4:10 For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.​

    Obviously, in light of the truth of the whole counsel of God there must be a non-universalist explanation.​

    What say ye calvinians? Or anyone.

    HankD (The MugWump)​
     
  9. mets65

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    They will say it means those that haven't believed yet.
     
  10. freeatlast

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    I posted a response on another thread and it dealt with this in part. There has only been one man who has become separated from God because of his own initial actions and that was Adam, and his actions brought onto all men a state of being lost.
    Romans 5:12 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:

    Because of one man's deed and we are his offspring we have all been accounted as to having sinned. There is no sin after that initial sin of Adam that we might commit that makes us lost because we are already lost. Likewise since one willful choice of rebellion caused the fall, one willful choice to accept the offer of the free gift saves the individual.

    The same is in the reverse. Because of One man's righteous deed, Jesus Christ, on a cross all men are included in the free gift.
    Romans 5:18 Therefore as by the offence of one [judgment came] upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one [the free gift came] upon all men unto justification of life.

    Likewise since one willful choice of rebellion of one man caused the fall, one willful personal choice to accept or reject the offer of the free gift which justifies and saves belongs to each individual. His blood covers the sin of Adam and we are all in Adam at conception. And like Adam we are given a choice to accept or reject God's law (the law of grace), for we are all under sin, and either live or die in our sin depending on our choice. While His blood was enough to cover each and every sinner it is not applied to the individual until they come to repentance and faith.
    Jesus' payment was enough for all mankind based on scripture. It is just that not all accept the offer.
     
    #10 freeatlast, Jan 25, 2011
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 25, 2011
  11. pinoybaptist

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    nevertheless, that doesn't change the fact that the Scriptures are meant only for God's people.
    We can preach ourselves hoarse in front of an audience of humankind, if God doesn't have people in that crowd, the preaching is in vain. We can call for all men everywhere to repent in front of a crowd of Greeks like Paul did, the fact remains, if God has no people in that crowd (which in this case God did, considering some remained to inquire some more) then all you get are sneers.
     
  12. pinoybaptist

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    Romans 15:4 and 1 Corinthians 10:11.

    And that principle speaks very strongly in the fact that God formed a nation out of one man, revealed Himself only to that nation, gave His law to that nation, and preserved the history of that nation and His dealings with that nation for His elect to read and learn from generations later.

    And who are the unbelievers Paul wrote to ?
    His letters were all addressed to churches and saints.
     
    #12 pinoybaptist, Jan 25, 2011
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 25, 2011
  13. mets65

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    Well he wrote concerning unbelievers, my apologies. Wouldn't you think Israel is he elect? The same nation that denies Christ is the messiah.
     
  14. pinoybaptist

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    They (national Israel) still deny Him as the Messiah.
    But there are individual Jews who, then, and now, believe in Christ.
    They are a beautiful picture of God's true people, which Paul calls the true Israel.
    If you read Romans 9 and 10 you will get a good sense of how national Israel was used by God to picture spiritual Israel (made up of Jew and Gentile from all manner of men).
    Paul loved national Israel and it was his belief that God has His remnant among them.
    it was his desire that those of God's who are caught up in the religion of Judaism be brought around to Christ.
    It is in this line of thought and in this context that he asks: how shall they hear, if no one be sent ? and states: how beautiful are the feet of them who bring the gospel.
     
  15. Iconoclast

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    Jesus is the only Saviour, given to mankind.There is no other.
    If anyone is going to be saved it will be by Jesus.
    The covenant promise is now spread from among Israel only,Amos 3:2
    to all nations.
    But there were also false prophets among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you. They will secretly introduce destructive heresies, even denying the sovereign Lord who bought them--bringing swift destruction on themselves

    All humans belong to God as part of His creation
    Jesus bought the right to all men at the cross;
    Just like in the first exodus, God saves only those He elects to save, not all.
     
  16. HankD

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    Hi Pinoybaptist,

    Knowing the Primitive Baptist doctrine of election I understand what you are saying and I tend to agree
    (I would probably attend a PBC if one were close by).

    However that does not mean you or I should not preach/teach the gospel of the Blood Atonement through His death/burial/resurrection to "worldlings" as we can only see the outward appearance.

    And the gospel cannot be preached without the use of Scripture.

    Personally, I have no problem with sneers, ridicule, etc.
    In fact, I welcome it as they are an indication that the Lord has used me.

    Thanks
    HankD
     
  17. HankD

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    Thank you Iconoclast, that is a believable response.
    I'm going to think on this.

    HankD
     
  18. pinoybaptist

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    Thank you, HankD.
    And you're right about preach/teach gospel of the blood atonement
    Never said it shouldn't be taught to worldlings.
    Only that the ears that are opened are God's people, and we have no idea who they are who are outside of the local church.
     
  19. mets65

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    Thank you for the enlightning post. You clarified some things for me.
     
  20. Robert Snow

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    I see the DoG's haven't answered these questions adequately yet, in fact I don't think they can.

    These, along with other scriptures, show that Jesus paid the price for all men, if they will but accept it.
     

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