How the Democrats can win in '06 and '08

Discussion in 'Politics' started by Joseph_Botwinick, Feb 5, 2006.

  1. Joseph_Botwinick

    Joseph_Botwinick
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    What are the winning issues for the Democrats this year and 2 years from now:

    Education: The Democrats should join forces with both liberals and conservatives in opposing NCLB:

    Why NCLB is bad, and why opposing it is a winning issue.

    Illegal Immigration and the economy and national security: Bush is pandering for the Hispanic vote and playing politics with this very serious issue. The Democrats should call him on it, but the tricky part for them is, they also would have to stop playing politics and get serious about stopping illegal immigration and stop rewarding it. When we continue to outsource middle class jobs to 3rd world countries with lower regulations where they are willing to work for pennies on the dollar, and then allow illegal immigrants within our own nation to steal American jobs, it is no wonder Bush is so concerned about no child being "left behind" and is trying to push every kid to be a college genius. Pretty soon, there won't be any middle class jobs available for Americans and there will only be white collar work left. The problem, as Holt very clearly articulated, is that not every child and their parents value education as much as we do. Even if they did, not every child is going to be a successful business exec. We need to reclaim the middle class by bringing some jobs back home and by stopping illegal immigration. If folks from other countries want to come here for a better life, let them do it legally and under our terms. Let them also become tax payers who put back into the national economy. And make big business pay them the same fair wage that they must pay everyone else, evening the playing field. If we, as a nation, think that immigration laws are too strict, then change them.

    Those two issues right there, I think, are winners. The Democrats will continue to lose if they continue harping on the war and the Patriot Act. Those are dead bang losers for the Democrats. If they can focus their attention away from the looney left of the country and get in touch with these two issues which are affecting the center of the nation, the common folks who are just trying to get by, they could unite the nation around their message. They also need to remember, however, they need to come up with better solutions, not just attack what they think is wrong.

    Joseph Botwinick
     
  2. saturneptune

    saturneptune
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    Joseph,
    I have to agree with you. Harping on the war is not a winner. If the Democrats will nominate someone not named Hillary and away from the liberal northeast, I think they have a better than even chance. If not, they will lose.
     
  3. KenH

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    The Democrats' best idea in 2008 would be nominate ex-Virginia governor Mark Warner for president and Senator Bayh of Indiana for vice president.
     
  4. carpro

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    While I agree that education should have remained a state issue...

    Since you are a teacher, Joseph, it does cross my mind that your real problem with NCLB just might be the accountability requirements.
     
  5. Joseph_Botwinick

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    I have no problem with accountability since I am not only just a teacher, but a darn good one at that. I have no problem doing my job and doing it well. I have a problem being held accountable for things which I have no control whatsoever over. Not everyone is going to be the next Bill Gaites. And yes, for reasons outside of my control, there will be children left behind as long as this earth remains.

    So no, Carpro, I don't have a problem with NCLB because I don't want to be held accountable. I have a problem with it because it is bad for education and for the children. It creates this false idea that we can put our children on an assembly line, and herd them like cattle toward genius, or at least proficient, status on a test. It ignores the human factor of all people. Some will become mechanics and construction workers, some will be doctors and lawyers. A lot less will become teachers because of the level of disrespect and lack of common sense there is when approaching the profession. All are equally important and have something vitally important to contribute to our society.

    Joseph Botwinick

    [ February 05, 2006, 02:28 AM: Message edited by: Joseph_Botwinick ]
     
  6. Joseph_Botwinick

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    A good example of how local control of education creates a more effective environment for teaching (a contrast of two different views):

    Public School: Document everything and just make sure everyone is proficient (Do just enough to get them to the minimum standard).

    My wife's private school: We are not going to meet the standards of the federal government in NCLB. We are going to exceed them and free our teachers up from the paperwork so they can teach. Of course, we were doing that long before the federal government thought about NCLB.

    Public School: If a child fails because his parents don't care about their education, it is the teacher's fault. Afterall, no child is supposed to be left behind and we really can't hold the parents accountable for their lousy parenting skills.

    My wife's private school: If a child fails due to having parents who don't care about education, it is the parents fault, and if they don't shape up, we are going to ship them out to some public school where they can blame the teachers for their own shortcomings as parents.

    Care to guess which system is working better?

    Joseph Botwinick
     
  7. carpro

    carpro
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    Ok. I agree that immigration is an issue that would resonate, but I believe both parties will continue to tip toe around the issue. That's a tie.

    The chief architect of NCLB was Edward Kennedy himself. That's a glaring weakness in the democrat position if they want to make it an issue. Second thing is I don't believe a Presidential election will be decided by this issue. It doesn't resonate with enough people.

    IMHO

    Democrats still lose on national security and the old morals bugaboo will bite them again, especially if Hillary is the candidate.

    They will gain seats in 06. They're supposed to, but they won't gain enough and 08 is too far in the furture. My crystal ball has gone cloudy. [​IMG]
     
  8. Joseph_Botwinick

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    I agree that the Democrats weakness is that they are just as complicit as the Republicans in the failures of NCLB and illegal immigration. They can, however (if they so choose), reform their positions on these issues and distinguish themselves from the GOP as the party who is trying to help the common man. NCLB affects a lot more people than you would ever imagine (especially those of us with children who are being affected by the failure of yet another government program meant to turn our children into robots of mediocrity).

    You are correct about the morality and national security issue. Democrats will almost always lose on that issue in this day and time until they do a major overhaul of their party and go back to the FDR, Kennedy and Scoop Jackson wing of their party. This is why, if they are to have any shot at it this year and in 08, they must focus their attention away from loser issues like the war and the patriot act, and toward their potential strengths in domestic policy with education, illegal immigration and the outsourcing of the middle class.

    I do disagree, however, that Hillary has no shot at it. Don't underestimate her and her ability to change her rhetoric to the center. She has already begun to do this. Also, we should not overestimate our ability to trash Hillary over what she might have said or done in the past because we run the risk of coming off as hateful and unhinged as the left is toward Bush. We certainly fell into that trap with her husband and it got us 8 years of Bill Clinton.

    Joseph Botwinick
     
  9. poncho

    poncho
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    Seems like alot about nothing just get a another globalcrat elected this time with a D on thier sweater.
     
  10. pinoybaptist

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    surprise, surprise, and I thought you were a dem, poncho, no disrespect intended. ;)
     
  11. poncho

    poncho
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    Nope, I'm an American and I'm not about to fall into the false paradigm of left vs right. To me it's liberty vs slavery, the global corporate/banker slavery.
     
  12. saturneptune

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    Take a look at the greedy and corrupt in-place power structure in Washington. Both parties are rotton to the core and are not worthy of consideration of the American people. We need to start over, not with the Constitution, but the parties.
     
  13. poncho

    poncho
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    We, need to get smart and organized first. Throw off all the phony trappings of labelism and be Americans again, then put the crimninals from both rogue parties in their rightful place. Those civilian "emergency" detention centers Halliburton is about to build in the United States sounds like a good place for them to me! ;)
     
  14. elijah_lives

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    There is no Constitutional Authority to spend federal monies on education.

    This is the key issue, for me. Regardless of how one feels about the failures of, and potential remedies for, education -- there is no authority for federal money or control. This is true for most of the federal budget (medicaid/medicare, support for poets and artists, social security, etc.). If we were to recognize this, and return to federal responsibility for enumerated powers, our federal deficit would evaporate, local and state government would be empowered, and the corruption at the federal level (in all branches) would be greatly reduced. Take away money and power, and corruption shrinks.
     
  15. poncho

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    It would probably just start all over again as long as there is a private central bank. But I agree EL.
     
  16. elijah_lives

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    Well, Poncho, I agree with you concerning a private central bank, as well. 7 appointed men have massive control over our economy through monetary policy -- an unconstitutional transfer of authority from the Congress to another entity. Unfortunately, the courts have disagreed with us.
     
  17. poncho

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    Trow da bums out da sooner da better! ;)
     
  18. hillclimber

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    They would have to stand for something. They must be perceived as having a vision backed with ink on paper, a written program for health care, and a solution for SS, and a plan for fighting terrorism, and a heart for the troops, back off the murder of the unborn, etc. In order to do that they must kick out the current lefties that are in control. In short, they can't win.
     
  19. OldRegular

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    I don't know how they could win in 2006 but they could in 2008 by doing what they failed to do in 2000 or 2004, successfully steal the election.
     
  20. Baptist in Richmond

    Baptist in Richmond
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    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    Governor Warner is one Democrat for whom I would DEFINITELY vote.

    Regards,
    BiR (in Idaho)
     

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