How to defeat the EIREITAD heresy!

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by Lacy Evans, Aug 8, 2007.

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  1. Lacy Evans

    Lacy Evans
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    How to defeat the EIREITAD (Everyone Is Rewarded Even If They Are Disobedient) heresy!

    Just ask the question, "By whose righteousness will you be chastened if you are disobedient?" The EIREITAD folks flee that question like rats out of an aquaduct.

    Of course, you EIREITAD folks can prove me wrong by providing a simple answer to this simple question.

    :laugh:

    Lacy
     
  2. exscentric

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    "By whose righteousness will you be chastened if you are disobedient?"

    Seems like apples and oranges :laugh:

    Now Justice or something similar might relate to chastening :thumbs:
     
  3. Lacy Evans

    Lacy Evans
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    Exactly. Gift is gift. Reward is reward.
     
  4. Cutter

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    By God's righteousness. God is true and righteous in everything He does, including disciplining His children.
    Hebrews 12:5 And ye have forgotten the exhortation which speaketh unto you as unto children, My son, despise not thou the chastening of the Lord, nor faint when thou art rebuked of him:
    :6 For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth.
    :7 If ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chasteneth not?
     
  5. Lacy Evans

    Lacy Evans
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    You EIREITADers still in the aquaduct?
     
  6. Amy.G

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    Believers are chastened and disciplined in this life, not after we die. It serves no purpose (as well as it's not Biblical) to be chastened while we're on our way to heaven. We are chastened in this life as a means to conform us to the image of Christ.
     
  7. Cutter

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    Your picture is so appropriate. Hiding and ducking. Same as seeking cover behind your false doctrine.

    Good pic!:thumbs:
     
  8. J. Jump

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    More statements of opinion with no Scriptural backing I see. Please share with us book, chapter and verse where discipline is limited to this life.

    And it certainly doesn't help that Scripture speaks repeatedly of the judgment that is to come and the negative aspect of that judgment that some will face. You are going to receive a just reward (recompense) for what you have done whether good or bad.

    If you are found to be unfaithful, disobedient and overcome by Satan, the flesh and/or the world God is not going to sweep that under the carpet and pat you on the back and say aw shucks you gave it a go here's your piece of paradise pie. I know it's smaller than everyone else's, but shoot it's better than where you've been.

    God is not mocked. You WILL reap what you sow. If you sow to the flesh you are not going to reap life. And that's not talking about the hear and now that is talking about the judgment seat of Christ. This idea that Christians have nothing to fear at the judgment seat is dangerous.

    I don't see how the Bible could make that any more plain.
     
  9. webdog

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    upcoming judgement, and upcoming chastening are apples and oranges. Chapter and verse stating chastening happens AFTER we die, and I don't mean judgement.
     
  10. Hope of Glory

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    It's been posted many times, but you didn't like it:

    Matthew 25:45-46: Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me. And these shall go away into aionian punishment (kolasin; chastizement): but the righteous into life aionian.

    If aionian is "forever and ever", then these people who are represented by a clean animal will be chastized forever and ever.

    But, even if you argue that we're saved by our works, so this is talking about salvation, here is chastizement used with judgment based on works, and this judgment takes place after death.
     
  11. webdog

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    That is speaking of judgement, not chastening. Chastening is correcting something that is wrong. When we are dead, there is no chance to correct whatever it is we are chastened for...that's what this life is for. Judgement is entirely different, so no, you and the others have not posted Scripture showing the difference, IMO.
     
  12. Hope of Glory

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    Perhaps you missed the aionian chastizement part in verse 46. Here, I'll repost it for you:

    "And these shall go away into everlasting punishment (kolasin; chastizement): but the righteous into life eternal."
     
  13. webdog

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    I didn't miss it. The punishment based on the judgement is forever. Chastening is correction. If one is being "corrected" forever, there is no chance to learn from the correction and correct it, is there?
     
  14. Amy.G

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    Jhn 3:16 "For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life.

    Show me book, chapter and verse where the spirit indwelt believer spends 1000 years in hell.
     
  15. Lacy Evans

    Lacy Evans
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    Why don't you keep your opinions about my picture with my daughter to yourself. You have no better argument than to attack an avatar?

    I don't get aggravated very often but that struck a nerve for some reason. I'm hugging my baby and you call it ducking.
     
  16. J. Jump

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    Well once again Amy I see you are skirting the questioning and trying to refocus attention away from yourself. You are getting really good at that.

    John 3:16 does not say that chastisement is only limited to this life, but nice try. I think we just had a big'ole thread about that verse so I don't think we need to rehash the misinterpretation of "eternal" again do we?

    As for your question we have repeatedly shown you all a number of different verses from the OT and NT alike. But just again so you can't rightly accuse me of anything I'll give you so more:

    Try Matthew 3, 7, 12 and 13; Mark 9; Luke 3; John 15; Hebrews 10.
     
  17. J.D.

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    Lacy, I like your picture. That's a cute kid you've got there.

    But as for the OP, I think you've got some problems with your proposition. 1) I haven't read all the posts but I would be surprised if anyone said that the disobedient will receive a REWARD for their disobedience; 2) I've never heard of being chastened BY righteousness, so your question doesn't make sense.

    But, I think I understand what you're saying. We are chastened for our unrighteousness, but after the chastening, we are to bear the "peacable fruit of righteousness". I take this righteousness which is born of God's discipline to be the righteousness of Christ becoming a reality as we grow in grace.

    Phil 3:9 "And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith:"
     
  18. J. Jump

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    See here is proof positive that 21st century vernacular is killing Bible doctrine. Now unless I am mistaken, and please correct me if I have misread your statement, you are equating "reward" with only positive.

    However in Scripture that is not the case. We will be "rewarded" for what we have done in the body whether good or "bad."

    We will receive exactly what is due us. It's wages. Reward is neutral. It doesn't carry an indication of whether good or bad in and of itself. Context tells the reader whether the reward is good or bad.

    Scripture says God will not be mocked. We WILL reap what we sow. If we sow to the flesh we will reap corruption. That's reward for our sowing. And corruption is not a good thing.

    However if we so to the Spirit we will reap "life." This isn't talking about everlasting life, because it is a reward for sowing. This is talking about another kind of life. It's talking about life for the coming age.
     
  19. J.D.

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    Well the OP used the word "reward" in the positive "Even If They Are Disobedient"

    I know that "reward" is contrasted with "suffer loss" (KJV) in 1 Cor 3 and is therefore positive only. Is there a passage that uses "reward" in the negative?
     
  20. Lacy Evans

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    Thank you. (Sorry I lost my cool in public like that!)

    It was a bit of a tongue in cheek response to another thread with a similar name. And I realize that the question wasn't really worded well but oh well.

    Reward for disobedience is easy to prove in scripture. (It's just a negative reward)

    Being chastened for Christ's righteousness was more the (howbeit silly) question. Many have said that a doctrine of reward according to works is "trusting in our own righteousness" as opposed to Christ's.

    My point was that our reward is based on what we do after we are saved.

    We all have Christ's imputed (positional) righteousness. But almost the whole NT is written to motivate Christians to walk in practical obedient righteousness.
    In one sense we have a "full dose". We are absolutely righteous positionally. There is no differentiated reward (or chastening) for this righteousness.

    In another sense we each must get our own as we yield to the Holy Spirit, resist the flesh, and try to walk in (practical) righteousness. This is what we will stand before the JSOC and answer for.

    At the end of the day, it will all have been Christ's righteousness, but that in no way negates our filial accountability.


    BTW, thanks for the Christian civility and charity displayed in your post.

    Lacy
     
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