1. Welcome to Baptist Board, a friendly forum to discuss the Baptist Faith in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to all the features that our community has to offer.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

How to defeat the EIREITAD heresy!

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by Lacy Evans, Aug 8, 2007.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. belvedere

    belvedere Member

    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2006
    Messages:
    64
    Likes Received:
    0
    "Here's a question: Chastisement by God is intended to get us on the right track, and bring us closer to Him. Why would a saved person, once gone from this fallen earth, need chastisement? In eternity with God, we will have perfect bodies and be continually in God's presence. We certainly don't deserve anything that good, but because of God's mercy and grace, and Jesus' shed blood, we will receive it."

    This is what I was referring to, npetreley. BTW, glad we're in agreement!
     
  2. webdog

    webdog Active Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 31, 2005
    Messages:
    24,696
    Likes Received:
    2
    This is what I have been trying to get out of the ME crowd from some time.
     
  3. npetreley

    npetreley New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 20, 2002
    Messages:
    7,359
    Likes Received:
    2
    Here's the problem. ME folk believe Matthew 25 refers to those who earn their way into the kingdom vs. those who are cast into outer darkness. One ME person will go no farther than saying "outer darkness", but the remainder of Matthew 25 clearly says the place they go is the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels. ME folk are incredibly embarrassed by this, because the words so clearly describe the lake of fire, and only the most hard-core ME advocate like Faust will claim believers go to the lake of fire for any length of time.

    Because they're too cowardly to own up to what the verse says, they'll dodge the issue by focusing on when satan actually gets tossed in the lake of fire, etc. Try it. Just ask an ME person about this verse and I bet you can't get a straight answer with a pitchfork and a cattle prod.

    Here's another answer you'll never get outside of using a bottle of sodium pentathol. Ask them how many salvations there are. Are there separate salvations of the spirit, soul, and body?

    Better still - is there more than one gospel? Is there a gospel of eternal salvation of the spirit by grace, and ANOTHER gospel of kingdom salvation by works? Dare 'em. Shoot 'em up with truth serum. I say you'll never get a clear answer. It's too obviously unBiblical, so they can't come clean on it while intelligent people are watching. They save that stuff for the unlearned and gullible.
    .
     
    #63 npetreley, Aug 10, 2007
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 10, 2007
  4. James_Newman

    James_Newman New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2004
    Messages:
    5,013
    Likes Received:
    0
    Psssst... outer darkness, it means HELL. and no, hell isn't the lake of fire. How many salvations? I think the bible shows at least three.

    Oh, I forgot he can't see me. :wavey:
     
  5. npetreley

    npetreley New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 20, 2002
    Messages:
    7,359
    Likes Received:
    2
    I can't see James' reply, but I'm willing to bet there's no confirmation of the ME claims that:

    1. Believers will be cast into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels for 1,000 years.

    2. There are multiple salvations, at least one of which you must earn by works.

    3. There are multiple gospels, one of grace, and at least one of works.
     
  6. Amy.G

    Amy.G New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2006
    Messages:
    13,103
    Likes Received:
    4
    Correct.............
     
  7. Allan

    Allan Active Member

    Joined:
    Jul 26, 2006
    Messages:
    6,902
    Likes Received:
    5
    Good point brother. Well said.
     
  8. Allan

    Allan Active Member

    Joined:
    Jul 26, 2006
    Messages:
    6,902
    Likes Received:
    5
    emphasis mine.

    At LEAST 3, you leave a standing impliction there may even be more?!!

    Talk about straining at the nat!
     
    #68 Allan, Aug 10, 2007
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 10, 2007
  9. James_Newman

    James_Newman New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2004
    Messages:
    5,013
    Likes Received:
    0
    I only know three, if you have more I'm willing to consider, but I think you'd be stretching it.
     
  10. James_Newman

    James_Newman New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2004
    Messages:
    5,013
    Likes Received:
    0
    We have a whole thread on biblical chastening and I started the thread showing from scripture that chastisement and punishment are synonymous. God is still just and punishment for sin is a legitimate purpose of chastisement.
     
  11. Lacy Evans

    Lacy Evans New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 13, 2003
    Messages:
    2,364
    Likes Received:
    0
    Already been answered about a million times.

    lacy
     
  12. npetreley

    npetreley New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 20, 2002
    Messages:
    7,359
    Likes Received:
    2
    Am I right, or am I right? They flee honesty as if it was the threat of 1,000 years in the lake of fire. ;)
     
  13. Lacy Evans

    Lacy Evans New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 13, 2003
    Messages:
    2,364
    Likes Received:
    0
    This whole thing about debating someone you are ignoring is just stupid.
     
  14. Hope of Glory

    Hope of Glory New Member

    Joined:
    Nov 29, 2005
    Messages:
    4,807
    Likes Received:
    0
    Look at the source.
     
  15. skypair

    skypair Active Member

    Joined:
    Jun 25, 2006
    Messages:
    4,657
    Likes Received:
    0
    Three things wrong though: 1) distorts the word of God, 2) takes the emphasis OFF living in the Spirit (same as Catholics and Pharisees) and 3) you become like unto the Pharisees.

    Well, just know by the part of my post that you quoted that you are building "wood, hay, and stubble" on Christ and not only you but those who believe you will be "SMOKIN'" at the Bema!

    skypair
     
  16. skypair

    skypair Active Member

    Joined:
    Jun 25, 2006
    Messages:
    4,657
    Likes Received:
    0
    We're are IN the kingdom now, accountable. No "skipping

    Straight to heaven at the rapture -- into glorified bodies.

    Next is JSOC. But if you maintain that anyone could go from there to hell, you would be subjecting to the "2nd death" those that are immune from it!!

    The marriage supper comes 7 years later on earth, Rev 19

    I would suggest you go back and recalibrate your eschatology so you don't make such foolish assertions in the future.

    skypair
     
  17. skypair

    skypair Active Member

    Joined:
    Jun 25, 2006
    Messages:
    4,657
    Likes Received:
    0
    DHK, Amy,

    Actually you can -- the kingdom of heaven is on the earth right now as we speak. It is Christ's invisible kingdom of beleivers but is suffices for "entering/seeing the kingdom of God" -- the result of being "born again."

    This is true. The MK doesn't start until 7 years after the JSOC and MARRIAGE of the Lamb (the marrigae supper which concludes the wedding is on the EARTH postrib, Rev 19).

    That being said, you both made the right point. The MK is NOT the resurrection or rapture of the church.

    skypair
     
  18. skypair

    skypair Active Member

    Joined:
    Jun 25, 2006
    Messages:
    4,657
    Likes Received:
    0
    HoG -- have you missed ALL of my dissertation on why what you say is impossible?? Mt 25:46 is not the judgment of the church. It comes too late. The judgment of the church is post-rapture to heaven -- this is post-return of Christ to earth.

    And how, pray tell, does God rapture us into glorified bodies and then re-corrupt some of us in the 2nd death and then raise them yet again to glory??

    You know what you are doing, don't you? You are taking verses and wresting them from context in order to make them read as you believe. It's called "isogesis."

    Would you like to explain how the church finds itself in the earthly judgment that precedes the MK in the first place? Is there no rapture to heaven in your theology? Does it look to you like believers in 1Cor 3 are "saved so as by fire" because of hell or because their works were burned before them?

    skypair
     
  19. skypair

    skypair Active Member

    Joined:
    Jun 25, 2006
    Messages:
    4,657
    Likes Received:
    0
    James -- ONE salvation, 3 STEPS.

    JUSTIFICATION -- Accepting God's eternal forgiveness of sins in Christ.

    SANCTIFICATION -- Growing daily in the "Christ life."

    GLORIFICATION -- Being changed into a body like unto Christ's glorified body.

    Now many works-based religions try to make 3 out of one but they haven't figure out how they'll glorify themselves yet! :laugh:

    skypair
     
  20. J. Jump

    J. Jump New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 26, 2004
    Messages:
    4,108
    Likes Received:
    0
    Whether you want to call that three in one or simply three different ones it matters not. It is merely semantics at that point, because we are all talking about the same thing.

    The fallacy of modern-day Christendom is that the second (sanctification) is a guarantee. That is a teaching that is not in line with Scripture. Sancitification has to be a cooperative process between the believer and the Spirit. And there are consquences for obedience and there are consequences for disobedience. Nowhere in Scripture are consquences limited to this age. Becuase there is a judgment seat where works are on trial that in and of itself tells us that the consequences last out into the coming age, or there would be no need for a judgment seat where loss is suffered. Not on is it unBiblical, but it just plainly doesn't even follow any logic or reason.
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
Loading...