How To Get To Heaven When You Die

Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by xfrodobagginsx, Apr 22, 2015.

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DO YOU ACCEPT JESUS GIFT OF SALVATION BELIEVING HE DIED AND ROSE AGAIN FOR YOUR SINS?

  1. YES

    2 vote(s)
    13.3%
  2. NO

    1 vote(s)
    6.7%
  3. I ALREADY ACCEPTED JESUS CHRIST AS MY LORD AND SAVIOR

    9 vote(s)
    60.0%
  4. OTHER

    3 vote(s)
    20.0%
  1. xfrodobagginsx

    xfrodobagginsx
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    ARE YOU 100% SURE THAT IF YOU DIED TODAY THAT YOU WOULD GO TO HEAVEN?

    There are some things that you should know:

    1. Realize that you are a sinner and in need of a Savior:

    Ro 3:23 "For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;"

    Ro 3:10 "As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:"

    This all began with the story of Adam and Eve in the garden of Eden. God created them perfect, there was no death or sorrow. God told them not to eat of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. They disobeyed God and as a result, sin entered into the world. The pain which this world sees is the result of sin.

    2. Because of our sins, we die both spiritually and physically, but God sent His Son to die so that you can have a chance not to have to go to hell by accepting what He did on the cross for you:

    Ro 6:23 "For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord."

    Ro 5:8 "But God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us. for us."

    Every person who has ever lived is a sinner and is not righteous because we do bad things. A sin is a crime against God, just as if you steal something at the store, it is punishable by going to jail. It's the same thing with sin. Even if we lie one time, the punishment is hell, which is a prison for those who commit crimes against God. That’s because you must be perfect in order to get to heaven. No matter how well you live your life from then on, you have already committed a sin which will be punished if you are not pardoned. If you commit a crime, and then live as a good citizen you still will go to jail for the crime you committed. Right? Just as the president can pardon a crime so you won't go to jail, Jesus can pardon your sins so that you do not go to hell, and can go to heaven when you die.

    3. If you will Admit to Jesus Christ that you are a sinner and in need of a Savior, Believe in your heart that He died on the cross and rose from the dead and Accept Him as your Lord and Savior and you will be forgiven and taken to heaven to be with Him when you die.

    Joh 1:12 “But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, to those who believe in His name”

    Ro 10:9,10 "that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved.."

    You cannot get to heaven by being a good person, going to church, baptism or any other way other than by turning to Jesus, believing in your heart that He died on the cross and rose from the dead for your sins and placing your trust in Him. While these are good things to do, some people believe that they will get to heaven if they do these things, but the bible says that there is only one way to heaven and that is through receiving what Jesus Christ did on the cross for you.

    Will you do that today? If you will, you can be 100% sure that you will go to heaven when you die.

    DO YOU BELIEVE THAT JESUS CHRIST DIED ON THE CROSS AND ROSE FROM THE DEAD FOR YOUR SINS?

    ARE YOU WILLING TO TURN TO JESUS CHRIST FOR SALVATION?

    4. If you are willing to accept Jesus Christ as your Lord and Savior and believe it with all of your heart, you could pray something like this to God from your heart:

    "Dear Lord Jesus, I believe that You died on the Cross and Rose from the dead for my sins. I ask you to come into my heart and forgive me for my sins, save me, take me to be with You when I die. I now receive You as my Lord and Savior. Thank You for saving me. In Jesus holy name, Amen."

    If you have placed your faith in Jesus Christ and meant it with all of your heart, you are now a child of God and will go to heaven.

    Now that you are on your way to heaven, you should attend a bible believing church and follow in baptism.
     
  2. Baptist Believer

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    PARt 1 of 2

    NOTE: Our friend has faithfully reproduced the message that I heard growing up in a Southern Baptist church. It is also the message that one can heard through many other churches and parachurch organizations, some Baptist and some not, that emphasize evangelism. It is an extremely popular and well-defined message that has been stripped down to what is popularly believed to be the essentials so that we can have quick and direct evangelistic conversations with others.

    I am very familiar with this message because I used to use it in evangelistic conversations I had with both friends and strangers, door-to-door and through friendship relationships. I also passed out many tracts with this message and engaged both willing and skeptical persons in conversation. However, many years ago I began to notice that there are massive problems with this message, problems that had caused a great deal of problems for the contemporary church and endanger the lives of those who hear it.

    What follows may sound abrasive, argumentative and nit-picky, but I want us to look at this message carefully and thoughtfully and see if we need to make changes or completely start over with something more scriptural. Of course you can’t say everything during an evangelistic encounter, but there are definitely things that must be said if we are going to call someone to faith in Christ. I am not attacking our friend who faithfully posted this message. He/she is obviously doing what he/she thinks is right and presenting the message that has been handed down to him/her. I hope he/she will participate in the discussion and ensure I am not twisting his/her words.

    Observations:
    1.) This question is about death. What if I am going to live today, tomorrow and for the next 40 years? Almost all of the people who read this will be alive tomorrow. Does the Christian church have anything to say to those who expect to be physically alive tomorrow?
    2.) This question talks about heaven as if the person hearing about it knows what that is, in a biblical sense. The scripture teaches that heaven is a temporary place for those who are in Christ before the resurrection of the dead at the return of Christ. Those who are in Christ will be resurrected (with resurrection bodies like Jesus) and will live with God and the heavens and earth are unified under God’s reign.
    3.) The unspoken implication of this question is that the gospel message is about what happens after death and our goal is to get to heaven. In contrast to this presentation, the focus of the teaching of Jesus’ teaching was the Kingdom of God (see Mark 1:15; Luke 4:43, 8:1, 9:11; Acts 1:3; not to mention all of the specific teaching and parables recorded about the Kingdom). Jesus instructed His disciples to teach the Kingdom of God (see Luke 9:2, 9:60, 10:9). Moreover the early church taught the Kingdom of God (Acts 8:12, 14:22, 19:8, 28:23, 28:31). I may be wrong, and I would like to be corrected if I am, but I do not recall a single place in scripture where Jesus or His followers tell people how to get to heaven. Please note that the references to the “Kingdom of heaven/Kingdom of the heavens” in Matthew is just a different way of describing the Kingdom of God. And no, the Kingdom of God is not another name for heaven, but rather the rule of God that brings justice, blessing and life.

    The way this is worded, the tree of the knowledge of good and evil sounds like the pagan myth of the Pandora’s box that released misery in the world. In a subtle way, this description has sin outside of humankind, devastating the world with and without human agency. In reality, humankind was created to reign (“rule over”) over the earth and everything in it (Genesis 1:26-29). But Adam and Eve rebelled against God by engaging (knowing) in evil and God subjected all of creation to a curse so that humankind could still maintain some mastery over it (Genesis 3:17-19 and Romans 8-18-20). The remedy for our situation is to cease our rebellion and enter into the Kingdom (Reign) of God. There will come a day when God will destroy all kingdoms and authorities opposed to Him, restore the heavens and the earth, and bring justice to all. Those who turn to Christ and enter the Kingdom learn how to live under the reign of God, as well as extend His reign in our area of influence. Through this process our character is transformed.

    Observation
    1.) I don’t know what you mean by “hell” here. I don’t know if you mean the grave (which is often translated as “hell” – and would be consistent with your assertion that we die) or eternal conscious torment which is the popular view of hell, but it inconsistent with the assertion that we “die both spiritually and physically.” From the next statement, it seems to be the latter. So, do we die or not?
    2.) Speaking of death, you assert that God sent Jesus “to die.” Is that it? The way most of our creeds and confessions of faith read, that’s about it. In churches, that’s also essentially the message. I know you do not intend to do it, but you have effectively reduced the gospel of Jesus to a certain theory of the atonement. While Jesus did talk about His death, that was not the focus of His ministry. Don’t get me wrong, we definitely need to talk about it and it is a very important part of the Christian message, but because this message you so faithfully present here has become the center of the Christian message for most churches, we have completely ignored the fact that Jesus came also as a teacher. It is no accident that you have only one gospel reference in your presentation (one more reference than most!) and it is a word of teaching ABOUT Jesus, not any teaching OF Jesus. It Is telling that Jesus never presents His message in the way that is presented here.
    3.) Speaking of that, you assert that the way to go to heaven is “by accepting what He did on the cross for you.” In contrast to this method, Jesus actually calls people to Himself, not to an acceptance of information. Jesus does this in many different ways (“Follow Me…”, “Come to Me all who labor…”, “Take up your cross and follow Me”, etc.), but He does not allow for passivity. One must stop doing what they have been doing and do things His way (the meaning of repentance). Some may scream that Jesus is advocating works. That would be correct. Jesus is advocating that His followers expend effort, but not to earn salvation or anything else. There is no earning salvation/eternal life. Eternal life comes as a consequence of being in a proper relationship with God that has been made possible through the atonement of Christ. This manner of “accepting” the work of Jesus is not a biblical picture of what it means to “believe” in Jesus. In biblical terms, believing in Jesus involves acting as if what Jesus said and did is true and committing your life to engaging in His teaching and guidance.

    See Part 2 of 2
     
  3. Baptist Believer

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    PART 2 of 2

     
  4. annsni

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  5. xfrodobagginsx

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    Please take the time to read this first post if you haven't yet and vote in the poll.
     
  6. Aaron

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    xfrodo should be xcommunicated.
     
  7. xfrodobagginsx

    xfrodobagginsx
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    Why is that?
     
  8. Zaac

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    I've heard this before and have seen people use it. I just still think this is too much but it's difficult to compact. :laugh:
     
  9. Darrell C

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    And I will look at your critique of this fellow's evangelistic effort and hope you participate and correct what you feel I am in error on.

    To sum up everything I will address in this post in one sentence, so that there is no need to wait for a summation, I will state that what you do here is over-complicate the Gospel, reiterate a number of things our friend Frodo has made very simple for people to understand, and actually entered into a works-based gospel which is founded on your own misunderstanding of the Kingdom Gospel preached and taught by Christ and His disciples.

    It seems that you have left the simplicity of the Gospel you were taught as a child.

    Could you list at least one of these "massive problems" your evangelism was creating?


    Just an honest opinion, but what it sounds like is a works-based gospel.


    And our friend Frodo has done exactly that, yet you find fault with it.

    The first thing I would suggest to you is that you do not call people to faith, the Comforter does that, and you need to just be grateful if the Lord chooses to use you in that process.

    Agreed, you are attacking the simplicity of the Gospel and imposing works...


    AS I am sure you are.


    Me too.


    That's not the point: salvation should have the urgency imposed on it that it deserves.

    And this question is a great discussion starter...even for professing Christians.

    The question is a great evangelistic tool among professing believers who are not sure they would go to Heaven when they died, because there are those like you who, instead of focusing on the basic facts about salvation in Christ, feel they must warn people not to think about trusting in Christ if they are not prepared to do works. There are those who think they lie in a grave until the resurrection. There are those who, because of shoddy discipleship and training, are more confused by the teaching they sit under than they were before they trusted Christ.

    And the obvious fact of the matter is that for most...going to Hell is a real concern. Think about it: when you placed faith in Christ was Hell not something that concerned you?

    Again, it is a great question for opening the door to discussion.


    That might be because that person has understood what Scripture teaches about Heaven, as well as Hell.

    Most people, believe it or not, are able to grasp the concept. And it is fear of Hell that motivates many people to begin their search for the truth about it.


    Scripture is a little more descriptive than this, lol. But most of this comes into a more understandable context as the new believer grows in Christ.

    By the way, Heaven is not a "temporary place" for believers, but is the Realm of God which is Eternal, lol. The heavens and earth are created replacing the current heavens and earth, but that does not mean God abandons Heaven.



    And that is precisely what the Gospel is about, though understanding eternal separation as opposed to the separation man is born into is something that can be explained as we witness.

    Most people, yourself included, do not understand the difference between the "heavens" and Heaven. So if you are saved, and I am going to assume you are, and yourself are having trouble with understanding this, then it might indicate that it is not necessary to get outside of the basic truths about separation and salvation, right?


    Continued...
     
  10. Darrell C

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    And what Kingdom do you suppose was in view?

    Could not have been the Body of Christ, because the Gospel was not revealed through Christ's teachings.

    Have you not ever noticed that Peter was in opposition to the Gospel...when it was spoken of?


    Matthew 16:20-23

    King James Version (KJV)

    20 Then charged he his disciples that they should tell no man that he was Jesus the Christ.

    21 From that time forth began Jesus to shew unto his disciples, how that he must go unto Jerusalem, and suffer many things of the elders and chief priests and scribes, and be killed, and be raised again the third day.

    22 Then Peter took him, and began to rebuke him, saying, Be it far from thee, Lord: this shall not be unto thee.

    23 But he turned, and said unto Peter, Get thee behind me, Satan: thou art an offence unto me: for thou savourest not the things that be of God, but those that be of men.



    Not one person was born again before Pentecost, not one. Those who were sent out to preach the Gospel of the Kingdom were not preaching salvation in Christ, but preaching about the Kingdom they were already promised, that is...the earthly Kingdom, which is not to be dismissed as the spiritual rule and reign of Christ in the hearts of believers, but the Kingdom promised to Israel by God in the Old Testament.

    How do I know?

    Glad you asked.

    Consider:


    Matthew 10:5-7

    King James Version (KJV)

    5 These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not:

    6 But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

    7 And as ye go, preach, saying, The kingdom of heaven is at hand.


    Matthew 15:23-24

    King James Version (KJV)

    23 But he answered her not a word. And his disciples came and besought him, saying, Send her away; for she crieth after us.

    24 But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.




    When Christ taught of the Kingdom it was specific to Israel, as we see in these two verses.

    This is he Kingdom that Nicodemus would have known, not the one that we, my friend, as born again believers having the revelation of the New Testament and the guidance of the Comforter...know.

    The Gospel of Christ was a mystery not revealed to men in those days, no, not even to the disciples of Christ. Mention of it was opposed by Peter on a number of occasions, even in the Garden of Gethsemane:


    John 18:10-11

    King James Version (KJV)

    10 Then Simon Peter having a sword drew it, and smote the high priest's servant, and cut off his right ear. The servant's name was Malchus.

    11 Then said Jesus unto Peter, Put up thy sword into the sheath: the cup which my Father hath given me, shall I not drink it?



    Do you see that Peter tried to prevent the death of Christ?

    Despite what Christ told them?


    We'll see how true this is.


    There is a reason for that: the Gospel of Christ was not revealed to men in that time:


    1 Corinthians 2:5-10

    King James Version (KJV)

    5 That your faith should not stand in the wisdom of men, but in the power of God.

    6 Howbeit we speak wisdom among them that are perfect: yet not the wisdom of this world, nor of the princes of this world, that come to nought:

    7 But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, even the hidden wisdom, which God ordained before the world unto our glory:

    8 Which none of the princes of this world knew: for had they known it, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory.

    9 But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him.

    10 But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God.



    Also consider:


    Romans 16:25-27

    King James Version (KJV)

    25 Now to him that is of power to stablish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began,

    26 But now is made manifest, and by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the everlasting God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith:

    27 To God only wise, be glory through Jesus Christ for ever. Amen.



    And the obedience we impress upon people is obedience to the Gospel itself, which is as simple as this:


    Acts 16:29-31

    King James Version (KJV)

    29 Then he called for a light, and sprang in, and came trembling, and fell down before Paul and Silas,

    30 And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved?

    31 And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.



    And I am a strong believer in following the example of those God has successfully used for His Eternal Purpose.


    Continued...
     
  11. Darrell C

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    I agree that they are synonymous, but suggest to you that Christ did not teach outside of the framework of the Scripture those people had available to them.

    The Kingdom of God was a reference in large part to the Millennial Kingdom (though it was not until Revelation was penned we knew the duration of that Kingdom).

    It is true that the spiritual rule and reign of God is in view, but that is always the case. However, we can solve a lot of difficulties many people have by maintaining the consistency of teaching according to the progression of revelation.


    Should have left his post intact, no reason to "snip" the Scripture. That is an injustice to your antagonist and the Word of God.

    Your assessment is only seen if you are looking for it.

    He clearly states their disobedience. You create the Pandora imagery.


    You mean to say that Scripture has it wrong?


    Romans 5:12

    King James Version (KJV)

    12 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:



    And what exactly does...

    ...mean?


    Which is precisely what our friend Frodo conveyed without complicating it as you have.

    See it again:


    And you feel people to get this complicated when witnessing?


    Which is a false gospel: man has no ability to "Cease their rebellion and enter into the Kingdom of God."

    The unveiling of the Gospel revealed man's total inability which is the reason why Christ came to die in man's stead. Furthermore, it is through the Lord's sending the Comforter that the world, which God so loved...would learn of their condition and the remedy:


    John 16:7-9

    King James Version (KJV)

    7 Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you.

    8 And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment:

    9 Of sin, because they believe not on me;



    And it might surprise you that this included the disciples, who were not yet Baptized with the Spirit of God, which I would suggest to you means they were not yet born again believers of Christ.

    They profess belief, but the Lord makes it clear that they do not:


    John 16:29-32

    King James Version (KJV)

    29 His disciples said unto him, Lo, now speakest thou plainly, and speakest no proverb.

    30 Now are we sure that thou knowest all things, and needest not that any man should ask thee: by this we believe that thou camest forth from God.

    31 Jesus answered them, Do ye now believe?

    32 Behold, the hour cometh, yea, is now come, that ye shall be scattered, every man to his own, and shall leave me alone: and yet I am not alone, because the Father is with me.



    When the going got tough...the disciples got going.

    They anandoned Christ, Peter going so far as to curse and deny he even knew the Lord.

    Wouldn't rightly call that abiding, would you?

    Would I be right in guessing that you throw in that those you witness to have to abide in Christ before they make a decision to trust Christ as Savior?

    Just curious.


    Continued...
     
  12. Darrell C

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    Which day do you speak about?

    The Day when He establishes the Kingdom of God here on earth, as He has promised to do?

    Or the Day in which this current creation passes away, and the Eternal State begins, where culmination of God's Redemptive Plan is fully realized?


    But the fact is that no-one enters into the Kingdom of Christ...knowing how to live under the reign of God.

    We all begin as rookies, my friend. We are conformed to the image of Christ as we grow.


    That is correct.

    So why seek ye to place in bondage those things you yourself could not do when you were saved?

    Why demand of unbelievers an understanding and practice most Christians struggle with.


    Everyone knows what he means by "hell" here.

    And if a prospective convert wants to argue the point...all the better, lol.


    The popular view of Hell?

    Hmm, do I sense a touch of liberal theology here? Are you implying that Hell is not eternal conscious torment?

    If there was a correction to make it would be in the statement...

    ...which is one thing I would consider inaccurate, though not something I would try to discuss with the unregenerate unless discussion went that direction.

    The truth of the matter is that we do die both spiritually and physically, but there are more than one death involved. Man is born without the Life of Christ, because he is separated from God due to Adam's sin. He is physically alive but without life, and will die physically as a result of both SIN and sins, and when the lost are resurrected they are resurrected in bodies which are physical that are designed to endure the eternal torment that Scripture teaches is the punishment for those who die in disobedience to the will of God.

    This is just another indicator that prior to Pentecost no man was spiritually alive:


    John 6:53

    King James Version (KJV)

    53 Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, ye have no life in you.



    What this means that unless one place their faith in Christ and specifically in the Atonement...they are not alive spiritually, because they remain separated from God.

    Regeneration is the process of the Eternal Indwelling of God by which we have, not will get...Eternal Life. Eternal Life is not a substance God pours into someone, God is Eternal Life and we partake of that Life when we are Baptized into Christ.


    Continued...
     
  13. Darrell C

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    Who's confessions and creeds? And why are they relevant?

    It seems what is lacking, in summing up your response to the OP...is works.


    That is a lie.

    First, you can't possibly know what is "essentially the message" in most Churches.

    Secondly, I have never been in the first fellowship where that was it.

    Lastly, did you miss this...

    ...?


    He didn't. lol


    On the contrary, he kept it simple, and did not corrupt the Gospel with a overly complicated works based gospel.

    If that is your MO, have at it, but at least keep the facts straight if you decide to critique an evangelist's methods.


    As a matter of fact...it wasn't His Ministry at all.

    It would not be until the Comforter came that the disciples, after having been Baptized with the Spirit, which is not simply empowerment as our charismatic brethren erroneously teach, but in fact the very reception of the Promised Spirit:


    Acts 1:4-8

    King James Version (KJV)

    4 And, being assembled together with them, commanded them that they should not depart from Jerusalem, but wait for the promise of the Father, which, saith he, ye have heard of me.

    5 For John truly baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost not many days hence.

    6 When they therefore were come together, they asked of him, saying, Lord, wilt thou at this time restore again the kingdom to Israel?

    7 And he said unto them, It is not for you to know the times or the seasons, which the Father hath put in his own power.

    8 But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth.



    Now if you notice the disciples are still in expectation of that Promised Kingdom which they had been preaching among...the Jews. Remember, they were commanded not to go unto the Samaritans and Gentiles, but to the Lost Sheep of Israel only.

    It shows their hearts are not yet understanding exactly what it is Christ had done. Think about it: if you were told you were going to be indwelt by God in a few days...would you be asking about a temporal Kingdom?


    You can correct me if I have.


    Who is we? lol

    Again, this is just not true.

    You jump to this conclusion because you did not see your doctrine of works in this Gospel presentation.


    Just how many Gospel references did he need?

    And you rebuke him because he...spoke of Christ?

    You are not just putting the cart before the horse, you are putting the horse in the cart and expecting him to pull it, lol. You don't try to make the unregenerate do something that, as I said, converts will struggle with for years.

    So tell me...were you Mr. Obedient when you were first saved?

    Just answer that for me.


    Well, when you can properly place Christ's teaching in their proper context, perhaps you might understand why the Lord was forgiving of Peter for being in opposition to the Gospel of Christ.

    And if Christ understood the inability of the unregenerate...where do you place that teaching of Christ in your own?


    Continued...
     
  14. Darrell C

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    And that is the simplicity of the Gospel, taught by Christ...


    John 6:53

    King James Version (KJV)

    53 Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, ye have no life in you.



    ...and reiterated over and over in the New Testament.

    It really is that simple...


    Ephesians 2:8-10

    King James Version (KJV)

    8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

    9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

    10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.



    "...unto good works," not by good works.

    If you really want to know how simple it is, consider John's teaching:


    1 John 5:1-5

    King James Version (KJV)

    1 Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: and every one that loveth him that begat loveth him also that is begotten of him.

    2 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments.

    3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.

    4 For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith.

    5 Who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God?



    We learn what He taught after we learn what He did.


    And again you have the context out of order.

    Place your teaching in light of Christ's:


    John 12:32

    King James Version (KJV)

    32 And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me.



    On the contrary, we see why men will be punished:


    2 Thessalonians 1:8-9

    King James Version (KJV)

    8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:

    9 Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;



    Peter also speaks about those doomed to Hell:


    2 Peter 2:20-22

    King James Version (KJV)

    20 For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning.

    21 For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them.

    22 But it is happened unto them according to the true proverb, The dog is turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire.


    And the Writer of Hebrews shows the information of the Old Testament economy under Law as contrasted with the information now revealed to men:


    Hebrews 10:26-29

    King James Version (KJV)

    26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,

    27 But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.

    28 He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:

    29 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?



    And the suggestion I would have for you is...keep it simple, my friend.


    Continued...
     
  15. Darrell C

    Darrell C
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    And we know that Peter was just as in need of salvation in Christ as any we would speak to today:


    John 14:26

    King James Version (KJV)

    26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.


    Luke 24:5-9


    King James Version (KJV)

    5 And as they were afraid, and bowed down their faces to the earth, they said unto them, Why seek ye the living among the dead?

    6 He is not here, but is risen: remember how he spake unto you when he was yet in Galilee,

    7 Saying, The Son of man must be delivered into the hands of sinful men, and be crucified, and the third day rise again.

    8 And they remembered his words,

    9 And returned from the sepulchre, and told all these things unto the eleven, and to all the rest.


    John 2:21-22

    King James Version (KJV)

    21 But he spake of the temple of his body.

    22 When therefore he was risen from the dead, his disciples remembered that he had said this unto them; and they believed the scripture, and the word which Jesus had said.


    John 12:15-16

    King James Version (KJV)

    15 Fear not, daughter of Sion: behold, thy King cometh, sitting on an ass's colt.

    16 These things understood not his disciples at the first: but when Jesus was glorified, then remembered they that these things were written of him, and that they had done these things unto him.




    That is an impossibility for the unregenerate, and it is not a commandment of Christ, it is the doctrine of men.

    It is nothing but works-based salvation, and it is contrary to the Gospel of Christ.



    No, some of us will quietly point out that it is you advocating works. We know what Christ taught.


    Sorry, no.

    Christ taught the same thing He taught through His Apostles and those used to pen Scripture:

    John 3:14-18

    King James Version (KJV)

    14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up:

    15 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.

    16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

    17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.

    18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.



    It really is that simple.


    Continued...
     
  16. Darrell C

    Darrell C
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    No, that would be you doing that.


    That is not what you are presenting.


    Now it is up to you to explain to those you witness to how that is accomplished, and while I have not read part two yet, I have not seen the first mention of the Comforter once in your post.


    On the contrary, the OP is a masterpiece in comparison to the gospel you present here.

    Simple, easily understood, and without complication.

    More detail in discussion is the hope of every evangelist, and the other is that the evangelist has been prepared to have an answer for every man.


    This is a given. How many believe to the saving of the soul yet maintain a posture of "Well, I'll believe He died for me, but all that other stuff...get outta here."

    It's a little absurd, my friend.

    Okay, one down, one to go. I'll wait for your critique of my critique of your critique of what is an effective and time tested question which our friend Frodo conveys in easily understandable terms.

    For many people, especially the unregenerate, simplicity is a necessity, and since that is how God has conveyed His will to man, we should show our appreciation and emulate that as we seek to be used of God in the efforts of evangelism.

    While a more in-depth and deeper understanding will eventually come to those who are obedient to our command to know God better through His Word, keep in mind that this is not something we have to impose on those who are likely already confused by the false religions and teachings they have already been exposed to.

    Keep it simple my friend. Lose the works. Expect no more from the Lost than you yourself are capable of.

    And support your local evangelist.


    God bless.
     
  17. Darrell C

    Darrell C
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  18. Darrell C

    Darrell C
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    I would like to know as well...why is that?


    God bless.
     
  19. xfrodobagginsx

    xfrodobagginsx
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    From which Church? Everything in this post is the same gospel that Baptists preach. Maye you are a heretic or not even Baptist I would conjure.
     
  20. xfrodobagginsx

    xfrodobagginsx
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    Yes, that sounds like it.
     

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