how to handle homosexuality in family

Discussion in '2003 Archive' started by IfbReformer, May 19, 2003.

  1. IfbReformer

    IfbReformer
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Jun 24, 2002
    Messages:
    708
    Likes Received:
    0
    Hi all,

    Normally I discuss doctrinal positions and I like to discuss Baptist and Church history - but today I have a very practical yet uneasy question to get your take on from a conservative, Baptist, biblical point of view.

    My brother is a homosexual. He "came out" when he was in his senior year of highschool - we both went to Christian school and I had graduated the year before(he was kicked out of the school and had to graduate from a public school).

    It was a huge shock to the family - my parents being conservative baptists. It was one of the only times in my life that I saw my Dad weep openly.

    At first they were very upset - looking at themselves to see what they had done wrong, then they became angry - at God and my brother.

    But that was almost 9 years ago now. Since then my brother has "dated" various men but in the last two years or so has moved in with someone on a more serious basis.

    He has completely rejected his Christian upbringing and claims to be a deist.

    For a long time my mother and father took the "don't ask - don't tell" approach with my brother. He was allowed to visit but not allowed to bring boyfriends to their house and they did not want to hear anything about that part of his life.

    They told him that they still loved him and continued to pray for him.

    So this went on for about 7 years until about 2 years ago my brother had a conversation with my mom about "Bob"(thats who we will call him for sake of conversation) and told him that he was going to be a big part of his life and they were living together.

    He told my mom that they were going to have to get used to Bob. Well at first my mom told him the rules remained the same and he had to accept them if he wanted contact with the family.

    He cut off contact for a while and I don't know who made first contact again(him or my mom) but eventually they were back together.

    But over the last two years my mom has really softened in her position with my brother and now she is going to meet his livin boyfriend.

    My brother just came into town(he lives about 4 hours away) this last weekend. Me and my brother have agreed not to discuss anything any more except our jobs. Because when it comes to religion or politics we will vehmently disagree.

    This has worked for the last few years but this last weekend my mom actually did something very strange.

    She encouraged us to talk about our various positions and was trying to find common ground between her two sons.

    She actually kept telling me not to offend my brother. She said she want to hear both our positions on what we believed about God and religion - she wanted "to really listen to" him.

    Well I just basically said that I believed the evidence was clear that an intelligent being created the world. And I said I believed that the charcter of the God of the Bible most clearly matches with creation.

    I said I believed Jesus Christ was God in the flesh and that he was the way, the truth and the life.

    Then my mother let my brother expound for about twenty mintutes his philosophies and I had to agree to shut up. He began proposing how religon is made up to help man cope and while he believes in a higher power we cannot know anything about him.

    He began preaching about how we in the US as Christians want to push our culture and religion on the Arab and Far East cultures.

    We think we are better according to him and his "people" are going to try and help debunk our beliefs and help us "think" our way out of our religion.

    He even got into a tirade about how it was none of our(meaning conservative christians) and specifically my business what he does in his bedroom with another man.

    He said I had no right want laws that impede on his freedom to live as he will and that he was not hurting anyone and they were consensual adults.

    He called me the enemy in a political and social sense.

    He wanted to try an help free my mind from the tyranny of religion.

    Well thats impossible if I have the Holy Spirit dwelling within me. I told him that some behaviors - even private ones amoung consenual adults affect society as a whole. They are not good for society - besides the greatest reason that God has condemned them.

    So my question is this - how do I handle him and my mother now as she is coddling him? Should I not go around my mom's when he is visiting? My mom says he is not a Christian so he us not under the same rules as us.

    But I feel in her efforts to win him over with kindness she is compromising her positions and softening up.

    What should my relationship with my brother be? Should there be one at all?

    He also tries to bring up "Bob" alot in casual conversation as to get us used to him. I am worried that my children will ask me who Bob is and I don't want to have to explain that to them right now.

    I look forward to your responses.

    Thanks

    IFBReformer
     
  2. j_barner2000

    j_barner2000
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 13, 2003
    Messages:
    888
    Likes Received:
    0
    First an aside... Eastpointe huh? I grew up in Warren and we always called it East Detroit. [​IMG]

    As far as the situation with your brother... We are called to love the sinner, just as Christ loves us. We are also called to tell the sinner just what Christ means to us, and minister to them where they are. His examole was to meet the need where the needy was. He also admonished us not to cast pearls before swine. Pray for him. Be his brother and love him.
     
  3. Charlesga

    Charlesga
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2003
    Messages:
    177
    Likes Received:
    0
    Amen!
     
  4. AdoptedDaughter

    AdoptedDaughter
    Expand Collapse
    Banned

    Joined:
    Oct 27, 2001
    Messages:
    3,184
    Likes Received:
    0
    I have a similiar problem...yet it's different.

    Just like you, I have a brother that is living in sin. He's is married to his second wife (6months) and has seperated. But now he is dating this other woman...he's having a complete affair with her.

    How to handle it? This is the advice that I strongly dislike when people give it to me, but it's true. You ready for it? Pray! That's right! Pray!

    Prayer is a very powerful tool given to the Christian in today's world. Also, learn about what he believes (actually research his faith) so that when he tells you, you can be prepared. He may not listen to you, but stand by what you believe, even if it means having a dysfunctional, or even lost relationship. We are here to bring honor to God, and how you do that in this situation is up to you.

    But the main thing you need to do is pray. Pray and stand by what you believe. I wouldn't discuss anything about your brother with your mom, so that she can't tell him. And if she begins telling you about him, and you don't want to hear it, tell her that you don't want to discuss your brother.

    Pray for yourself, your parents, your brother and most importantly for your family. Think of God first, and your family second. If you feel that anything that your brother would say or do would be damaging to your child, do what you have to to keep your family safe.

    That's what I have had to do. Unfortunately, my situation led to a broken relationship with both my mom and brother. (My mom wants to believe that everything is ok and whatever my brother says would never happen.) Standing up for what you believe is important. And keep strong in prayer!


    God's grace and peace be with you, brother!

    *AdoptedDaughter*
     
  5. Gina B

    Gina B
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Dec 30, 2000
    Messages:
    16,944
    Likes Received:
    1
    Wow, that's a tough one. All I can say is how I *think* I'd react.
    I'd maintain contact, meet his boyfriend, and be nice. I'd welcome both in my home, the children don't need to know the nature of their relationship at this point in time and you can ask the brother and his friend not to make their relationship obvious in front of your kids. Don't know how old your kids are, but I'd wait until mine were older to explain it to them.
    I'd never back down from calling it sin, although once you've made your position known there's no need to repeat it over and over out of the blue. Treat them like you'd treat any friend or relative caught up in sexual immorality. IE an affair, unmarried sex, etc..
    Gina
     
  6. dianetavegia

    dianetavegia
    Expand Collapse
    Guest

    This is tough but I would love him as my brother, pray for him but I would not socialize or allow him and his partner in my home. To do so would send a message of acceptance to my children.

    I angered my sister in law a few years back. She has been a common law wife for many years. She and this man came to visit us and we would not allow them to sleep together, smoke in our house or drink in our home. They had a bottle in the car and would take their tea or soda down to the car. I figured out they were pouring something into the glasses down in the driveway. Nick was only 1 year old....... and had no idea what sin was..... but we did. They didn't like being told they couldn't sleep together and got a hotel in town.

    I'm not sure why your mother has softened her stance. I'm guessing she just wants everybody to get along even if it means winking at sin. Sin is sin, Christian or not........ and the Holy Spirit in you will rebel against the sin in his life. I would practice Biblical Separation.

    My own brother is an alcoholic (dry right now tho) with 5 ex-wives. If he were to come to a function, I would speak to him and be kind but I would not invite him and his latest girlfriend to stay in my home.

    Again, this is tough....... but the Bible is tough on sin.

    Respectfully,
    Diane

    Homosexuality
    http://www.iamnotofthisworld.com/sodomy.htm

    Biblical Separation
    http://www.iamnotofthisworld.com/biblesep1.htm
     
  7. christine

    christine
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2003
    Messages:
    365
    Likes Received:
    0
    I have had family members which were "sluty", beat their children and abused their wives. I let them know, that I did not condone it, and then let it go.
    You are supposed to be a witness in everything. If you isolate or totally seperate from all "sinners", how can you do this.
    Once they know how you feel, they will think of it each time they see you. You won't even have to say a thing.
    If your children are old enough to "notice" or "ask". Use it as a positive way to teach them. Explain to them what the deal is (at their level), and then explain that God says it's wrong.
    Children know much more than anyone thinks!! It's better that they know that it's wrong too.
    Short story: My sister drank every weekend (smashed), and would go out in Victoria secret type outfits. My daughter was 5 yrs. It only took two comments (unsolicited) from her to my sister. When Chlirissa said, "my aunt niecey's a drinker!", my sister cried and begged me to tell her it was ok. I would not, shortly after, she quit drinking and therefore had no need to "go out" or wear those clothes.
    By the way, I never talked bad about my sister to her, I said it was wrong and left it at that. I have never seen my sister so crushed, and thank God, haven't seen her drunk since(10 yr now).
    Christine
     
  8. Johnv

    Johnv
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 24, 2001
    Messages:
    21,321
    Likes Received:
    0
    how to handle homosexuality in family

    I suppose one should handle it in the same manner if you found out your adult brother was having sex with a woman outside of marriage.
     
  9. Ben W

    Ben W
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 16, 2002
    Messages:
    8,868
    Likes Received:
    0
    It should not come as a big surprise that your brother wants to launch a tirade at the church and organised religion. In his mind these groups are attacking him by not condoning his lifestyle.

    You need to be comfortable that your beliefs are being respected. There is no point seeing him to have fights. That will prove unhelpfull to all.

    I would be carefull not to in anyway feed into his anti thoughts concerning church. You need to be very open with your mum about how you feel about your Christian Faith.

    I would try to have some type of dialogue with your brother, but not let it come to a fight. I would also remember him in prayer at every possible occasion. Prayer can work many miracles.
     
  10. Daniel David

    Daniel David
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2002
    Messages:
    5,316
    Likes Received:
    0
    It is not the same. Why do people on here try to turn every discussion on homosexuallity into a discussion that includes something about other sexual relations that are sinful.

    In Romans 1, God clearly said that men in their passion (and reprobate mind) forsook the NATURAL use of the woman to be with another man. It is natural for a man to desire sex with a woman. It is unnatural for a man to desire sex with a man.

    So, I can with confidence tell my son that it is normal and natural to desire to be with a woman. It is wrong and sinful though to have sex with a woman outside of God's marriage boundaries.

    I can also tell him with confidence tell him that it is never right and never acceptable for a man to be with or desire to be with another man, EVER.
     
  11. stubbornkelly

    stubbornkelly
    Expand Collapse
    Banned

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2002
    Messages:
    3,472
    Likes Received:
    0
    But this is a discussion on how to handle such an issue. What you tell your kids about fornication and homosexuality doesn't really have to do with how one would treat a family member involved in either. I can't think of a reason one would treat the two cases differently. Either you can have a relationship with them, or you can't.

    I can only see one instance in which you could have a relationship with a brother in fornication but not one in homosexuality, and that's if you're going to overlook the sex part because on the outside, it all looks normal. By "overlook" here I'm speaking of in front of the kids, since there would be no questions or anything about why Uncle Jim keeps bringing his friend Lisa to family events.

    I've known people who have, for the sake of keeping the family relationship, initiated house rules about non-married couples. If the gay couple can't hold hands, neither can any other unmarried couple; if the gay relative can't bring a partner, then neither can any other unmarried relative; and so on. It has worked rather well, actually.
     
  12. Johnv

    Johnv
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 24, 2001
    Messages:
    21,321
    Likes Received:
    0
    It (heterosexual sex outside of marriage and homosexual sex outside of marriage) is not the same. Why do people on here try to turn every discussion on homosexuallity into a discussion that includes something about other sexual relations that are sinful.

    Both are fornication and both are biblically frowned upon. The question was, how would one handle a situation with an adult member of the family who was homosexual? My reply was, I'd handle it the same way as finding out that a member of the family was having heterosexual sex outside of marriage.

    It is natural for a man to desire sex with a woman.
    It is also listed as an abmonation if it's not within marriage. It may be in the nature of man, but biblically, isn't that part of our sinful nature??
     
  13. christine

    christine
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2003
    Messages:
    365
    Likes Received:
    0
    Homosexuality in a family should be handled the same as any other sin. No sin is worse than another. The problem is that YOU are more offended by this sin (daniel david). Sin is sin. It should not be condoned, but hate the sin not the sinner.
    In my experience, men are more vemenous about homosexuality than women are, so it's only natural that it offend you more, than fornication or some other sin. The bible does not differentiate (sp?) who is worse, for what sin. He hates all sin equally.
    Christine
     
  14. Daniel David

    Daniel David
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2002
    Messages:
    5,316
    Likes Received:
    0
    1. Based on what? Did I not point out that homosexual behavior is so perverse, it is not even natural for lost people.

    2. Prove it.

    3. Of course. Not all sin is the same though.

    4. Not a biblical position. How well did you love Hitler but not what he did? It is a ridiculous idea. You cannot separate one from the other.

    5. It would be better to say that he hates all sin as sin. Any one sin is enough to damn a person.
     
  15. christine

    christine
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2003
    Messages:
    365
    Likes Received:
    0
    I don't know of any scripture which specifically says "this is the worst sin", except rejection of christ. Many places in the bible it speaks of sins being an abomination, or that God hates it.
    Some examples of hating sin but loving the sinner is:
    1. My brother beats his wife, but I love him anyway.
    2. My father treats his wife horribly, but I love him anyway.
    3. My sister had an affair with a married man, but I loved her anyway.
    4. My other sister was very "easy" when she was a young adult, but I loved her anyway.
    5. My mother beat us as children and never protected us from our drunk father, but I love her to this day!
    6. I've been divorced and sometimes I'm aggrevated and stubborn, but they love me anyway.
    Christine
     
  16. Johnv

    Johnv
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 24, 2001
    Messages:
    21,321
    Likes Received:
    0
    How well did you love Hitler but not what he did?

    I'm gonna tell you something. You should love Hitler. God loved Hitler. God hated the sins of Hitler, as we should, but God loves all completely and unconditionally. Jesus was very specific: love your neighbor as yourself. If you don't, you're not following the Golden rule of Christ.

    If you think God hates sinners, you need reread your Bible. Because, since we're all sinners, we're all hated.
     
  17. latterrain77

    latterrain77
    Expand Collapse
    Banned

    Joined:
    Jul 7, 2002
    Messages:
    497
    Likes Received:
    0
    Hi Daniel David. You said; It is not the same. Why do people on here try to turn every discussion on homosexuallity into a discussion that includes something about other sexual relations that are sinful.

    Because heterosexual adultery and homosexuality are shown to be of equal weight (Lev. 20: 10, Lev. 20: 13). In reality, ALL sexuality outside of the marriage bed is inappropriate (Heb. 13: 4). Thanks! latterrain77
     
  18. massdak

    massdak
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 27, 2002
    Messages:
    1,271
    Likes Received:
    0
    a question for johnv
    if it would become legal in the US for same sex marriages then do you believe that two same sex couples would be in sin or not?
     
  19. latterrain77

    latterrain77
    Expand Collapse
    Banned

    Joined:
    Jul 7, 2002
    Messages:
    497
    Likes Received:
    0
    Hi ifbReformer. There is no need to embrace a lifestyle that your uncomfortable with, but it is prudent to embrace a brother (Prov. 17: 17). YOU may be his only source of the Gospel. How will he hear unless a preacher be sent? (Rom. 10: 14). As for the "family" concerns surrounding it, there are no simple answers. Pray to GOD for wisdom and stay focused in the Bible in your search to find those answers. Keep the fruit of the spirit well evident (Gal. 5: 22-23). If your brother sounds "militant" at times, try not to respond in like manner (1 Peter. 2: 23, 1 Cor. 4: 12 ). Your behavior and words (Col. 4: 6) are powerful witnesses in and of itself. latterrain77
     
  20. Johnv

    Johnv
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 24, 2001
    Messages:
    21,321
    Likes Received:
    0
    Yes, I believe it would be a sin, since marriage is a covanent between a male, a female and God.
     

Share This Page

Loading...