How to separate the pretenders from the believers

Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by J.D., May 2, 2006.

  1. J.D.

    J.D.
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    Get rid of all entertainment from your church services. Only have preaching and praying. The pretenders will leave quickly. The youth program will be the first to collapse.

    If you do this, be prepared to sell your church property, because it will close soon.


    J.D.
    Raining on the parade
     
  2. webdog

    webdog
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    I don't know if you would separate the "pretenders" from the "believers", but you would definately separate the legalists from the non legalists.

    Calling music "entertainment" is your personal opinion only.
     
  3. Joshua Rhodes

    Joshua Rhodes
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    Hey J.D.... that reminds me of a song:

    Clear the Stage
    Ross King © 2002 Ross King
    (VERSE)
    Clear the stage and set the sound a lights ablaze
    If that's the measure you must take to crush the idols.
    Jerk the pews and all the decorations too until the congregation's few then have revival.
    Tell your friends that this is where the party ends,
    Until you're broken for your sins you can't be social.
    And seek the Lord and wait for what he has in store,
    And know that great is your reward so just be hopeful.

    (CHORUS)
    ‘Cause you can sing all you want to, yes, you can sing all you want to.
    You can sing all you want to, but don’t get me wrong… worship is more than a song.

    (VERSE)
    Take a break from all the plans that you have made
    And sit at home alone and wait for God to whisper.
    Beg and plead Him open up His mouth and speak,
    And pray for real upon your knees until they blister.
    Shine the light on every corner of your life until the pride and lust and lies are in the open.
    Read the Word and put to test the things you've heard
    Until your heart and soul are stirred and rocked and broken.

    CHORUS

    Anything I put before my God is an idol.
    Anything I want with all my heart is an idol.
    Anything I can't stop thinking of is an idol.
    Anything that I give all my love is an idol.
    We must not worship something that's not even worth it,
    Clear the stage, make some space for the one who deserves it.

    (CHORUS 2)
    And I can sing all I want to, yes, I can sing all I want to.
    I can sing all I want to, and still get it wrong…
    ‘Cause you can sing all you want to, yes, you can sing all you want to.
    You can sing all you want to, but don’t get me wrong… worship is more than a song.
     
  4. Joshua Rhodes

    Joshua Rhodes
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    It's not about entertainment here... but of course, there's probably no convincing you of that. Good luck with your project. Let me know how it turns out.
     
  5. rbell

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    It is so amazing to me the venom that JD has for teenagers. Last time I checked, Jesus died for them, too.

    I will pray for you and your church. I'm sorry you're so unhappy. And frankly, I hope that this thread is deemed too inflammatory to continue.
     
  6. J.D.

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    O.K. I've changed my mind. Since SINGING (note the word is singing, not screaching like a banshee) is biblical, let's bring the music back. But ONLY the music.

    No dramas, no candy, no pizza, no volleyball, no softball, nothing. Only preaching, praying, and singing.

    How long will your youth group last? One of you, rbell I think, said that your young people were "converts that stay around, for six years now".

    I say, take away the goodies, and they won't last six days.

    And the rest of your church will last longer, but not much longer.

    No inflammation here, just fact.

    J.D.
    Venomous
    [​IMG]
     
  7. rbell

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    JD, thanks for questioning the salvation of my kids. I'm going to self-edit now.


    There. Better.

    Glad you know my church. And my kids. Thanks again for your Christian attitude.
     
  8. J.D.

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    You're right. I did say "separate the pretender from the believers". I guess that was a stab at their salvation. Let me think about it, I might take it back.

    I never said I know your church or your kids. But I do know churches and I've led many a "successful" youth group. Take it from me, just keep the entertainment and candy and pizza and games flowing and you'll be alright.

    My christian attitude directs me to honor and glorify God and to speak against anything that distracts from his worship including rebellious, screaching, screaming, demanding professors that have not submitted themselves to the Authority of the Sovereign of the universe. (and no, I don't mean ME).

    J.D.
    Maintaining a Bad Attitude
    [​IMG]
     
  9. Salamander

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    Only way to separate the pretenders from the true believers is to let God separate the tares from the wheat.

    Of course God does that through Bible preaching.

    The reason there are so many pretenders this day is because so many churches are geared towards the entertainment factor to bring numbers in.

    Now numbers does mean souls, but if what is getting them "in" is the entertainment value, guess what? You have mostly pretenders and those who are only after entertainment.

    Now if you really want to pet the cat in the opposite direction, just PREACH! the Bible. Until the pretender gets the cat turned around he will rebutt all Bible preaching except that which is only "love" and that of course according to how he "feels" about it.

    Hard preaching never ran me off. Axe grinding preaching makes me angry and then I have to be sure not to sin. Lily-livered preaching makes me wanna preach the paint off the walls. Story telling and joke telling makes me sick, does you too but you might not even know it yet. If you're a pretender you never willuntil you get saved.

    Give me the Bible! Preach it to me in any style, just give it to me with my betterment in view and God's Glory in the forefront! The pretenders will either get saved or leave because they don't love God or even know God.

    I wonder if my statements will soon be edited and snipped??? [​IMG]
     
  10. J.R.Maddox

    J.R.Maddox
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    J.D.'s profile

    Dude!!!!! That is epic....I know God is impressed, even if I am not.

    J
     
  11. J.D.

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    Sal, if I understand you right, what you're basically saying is that I don't have to get rid of anything but just make sure the bible is being preached uncompromisingly and then the pretenders will flee.

    That makes sense to me.

    But I still want the entertainment out.

    J.R. - I'm not sure what my profile has to do with the post. If I understand what you're saying, you're basically saying that you don't like me. O.K. but I don't know what that has to do with the subject.

    J.D.
    Feeling better now that Sal (a strong opponent to me in the Calvinism debate) has refreshed me.
    [​IMG]
     
  12. Joshua Rhodes

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    So basically, J.D. we're to do whatever you like in church. How is this different than what you accuse our kids of?
     
  13. Frenchy

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    aint that the truth!!! not just the youth group but anyone else who walking the line.

    See I saw J.D.'s post as those WALING THE LINE not those who weren't saved. those who want their ears tickled and flesh stroked
     
  14. J.R.Maddox

    J.R.Maddox
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    Well, after reading the absurd comment you made, I thought I would check out if you were a Baptist, where you worshiped, etc...thats the whole point of having a public profile. Imagine my joy when I discovered not only had you accepted Jesus...but you were a cut above...you had accepted '5 point calvinsim'!!!!

    I was very much relieved to know this becasue that means you have a keen theological mind...You are not only elect...you are elite!

    seriously...I just had never seen anybody profess their faith in Calvinism....I thought it was humorous.

    As far as liking you???? Dude...I don't know you...this is a message board, not a cafe or fellowship hall...How would I know if I like you or not? I am sure you are a wonderful person...In fact, I would love to hang out with you...you could help me seperate them pretenders from believers...

    J
     
  15. tinytim

    tinytim
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    And while you are at it, rip out Psalms!
    God loves music so much HE put it in the Word of God..

    That would be a disgrace to God to go without music.
     
  16. J.R.Maddox

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    (In an old grumpy mans voice)

    Back in my day we didnt have fancy smancy music and all them hi falluten dramas...we sat in old hard wooden pews...we sang nice quiet songs and listened to old boring sermons untill we were ready to beat ourselves to death with our old moldy hymnbooks...AND WE LIKEDIT THAT WAY!!!!!!

    Dana Carey...where are you when we need you?

    J
     
  17. Gina B

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    Why would we want to do that?

    Church isn't entertainment. They praise, study, and pray.

    Yes, entertainment is thrown into other meetings. On purpose. Youth group meetings, Awana, etc.. We have game night sometimes. It's a way to fellowship with other people and have fun. Why not? Christianity isn't taking all entertainment out of your life. If you choose to have fun going to Awana, or taking the youth group out camping, how is that not ok? I find it much more pleasant to spend time with church members, with the young ones in the church, than to sit at home and watch a movie or whatever.

    This "entertainment" stuff you talk about is extra-curricular type stuff that churches do. The church is a family, not something to go to once a week. If the church wants to offer wholesome activities and entertainment, that's great! If they want to have meals and eat with each other after church on Sunday, even better! I love that, spending more time with others who love God too.

    Please don't encourage people to get rid of their church programs.

    In fact, someone on another thread, just yesterday, said that he invited a waitress to church. I asked why he didn't invite her to his house instead (I believe church is for believers) and he basically said that it would be weird for a man to invite a girl to his house.
    But you know what? He doesn't have to. He also doesn't have to invite her into a typical praise and study service on Sunday morning though, where it would be ackward for her as an unbeliever to be in a place of worship towards someone she doesn't believe in.
    What better way, in a situation like that, than to invite them to a game night, or movie night, or a dinner at the church? It's outreach. That's good.

    We need MORE fellowship with other believers and MORE outreach, not less of it!

    And if a church isn't preaching solid messages, that's a reason for EVERYONE to leave.
     
  18. J.D.

    J.D.
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    We're to do whatever God likes in church. We get that from the Bible. It's called the regulative principle. It's a good principle. It says that we are to practice only that which is prescribed in scripture in the worship of God.

    You, I assume, practice the normative principle which says that you are free to do whatever the Bible does not specifically forbid.

    Based on the normative principle, I should be able to pen up, shoot, and butcher wild game in the middle of the church house in order to get hunters to come to church.

    Rediculous, you say? Well, that's what I say about the Sunday Morning circus in the typical "christian" church - REDICULOUS.

    J.D.
    Thinking about having a "fishing and praise" service centered around the baptistry this Sunday.
    [​IMG]
     
  19. J.R.Maddox

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    Now thats the issue isnt it?

    J
     
  20. J.D.

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    J.R. I think you're more concerned about my Calvinism than the issue at hand. Please go to the theology forum and there you can rage against calvinism all you want to. This thread is about entertainment in church.

    J.D.
    Elitist
    [​IMG]
     

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